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View Poll Results: What Should I Do For A Paint Job?
Maaco Paint Job 35 19.23%
At-Home Paint Job 147 80.77%
Voters: 182. You may not vote on this poll

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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2004, 01:52 PM
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Here's something else that hit me hard the other day too.

My grandmother had a little bang-up in her 2002 Neon and she needs a new rear quarter,left rear door,etc.She let me look at the quote sheet from the body shop and I was startled at their prices.

Body Labor @ $35.00 per hour.
Paint Labor @ $30.00 per hour.

Those wages do not include materials.That's just what they pull in off of the job.The total bill was close to $2,000 and it was mostly the labor.I think that it was like $1,300 or so.I'll have to look again to be sure.

I think that if I get that guy that I was talking about to paint my truck,that would be a good deal,especially after seeing those prices.

Nightrain

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Old 01-11-2004, 03:44 PM
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$35.00 is a bargain. It's been 10 years since my shop was on $35.00.

Troy

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Old 01-11-2004, 04:05 PM
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A '92 and you say the truck looks good after a wash and wax? Does not sound to me like you need a paint job!

Go to www.autopia-carcare.com which is a detailing forum. They will tell you how and what to use on your car to make it look like new.

Another option is too just shoot another clear coat on top of the existing paint.
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Old 01-11-2004, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by troy-curt
$35.00 is a bargain. It's been 10 years since my shop was on $35.00.

Troy

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69 ss rs full custom camaro 98 ISCA grandchampion
69 ss rs bb camaro wifes driver
66 Elcamino 350/all dz parts,ac,windows,loaded,my driver
69 ss chevelle bb conv.fresh frame off
26 T sedan street rod
Still seems steep to me,but that's one of the first quotes that I've seen come from a body shop.

Nightrain

Quote:
Originally posted by asennad
A '92 and you say the truck looks good after a wash and wax? Does not sound to me like you need a paint job!

Go to www.autopia-carcare.com which is a detailing forum. They will tell you how and what to use on your car to make it look like new.

Another option is too just shoot another clear coat on top of the existing paint.
When you wash it,it only looks good until it dries.I've tried 2 coats of wax and in about a week,it does the same thing.Plus,the owner before me sideswiped a parking post and took it to a body shop.They fixed the body damage and repainted the right rear fender.It looks brand new while the rest of the paint on the truck looks like crap.I know a guy who owns a detailing business and I am going to take it to him to buff out before I make the final decision on painting.If it comes out looking good from that,I'll leave it like it is.Otherwise,off to the paint booth it goes.

Nightrain
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2004, 05:05 PM
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The guy is giving you a good deal. Find his favorite frosty beverage and pick up a case before going there (don't let him drink any till the car is painted though) maybe it will drop to $300. Shops charge $45.00/hr around here. What paint you go with depends on what you are expecting. If you want it to look good for 4 years or so, use the omni. If you want it to look better and last longer use the higher lines from ppg, dupont, r-m, sikkens, house of color. There are many good paint companys out there. From what I remember about the omni clear it looked decent but ran easy if you put it on a little heavy. This was when it first came out though. I haven't used it for years. You need as many coats of base as it takes to cover. Could be two, could be more depending on how it covers(spray till hiding). Sometimes you get a color that won't cover and you are spraying it forever. It usually takes me about a quart 1/2 of mixed paint to put a coat on an average sized vehicle. If he is using an hvlp gun it will go further, but being a retired guy, he is probably using a conventional gun. You have to look at the mixing ratio and find out how much paint you will have when the paint is mixed with the reducer. If you run out it is a pain going to get more mixed. If you buy a whole gallon of base you should have more then enough and have left over for anything you would have to touchup in the future, reds are the most expensive and if it has pearl in it gets even higher. I would get a gallon of clear and would put on three coats of clear for wetsanding and buffing. Evercoat makes good fillers, as well as many others. The best primer is a urethane primer that has a hardener with it. If you only have 2 small dents to fill I would buy a quart of plastic filler, you can always pick up more if needed. Go to autocolorlibrary.com to get an idea of prices and ppg's website is ppg.com. Click on auto refinish when you get there. You could also look into paintless dent repair if the two dents are small and having it detailed, but at the price the guy is giving you, i think I would go the painting route, but you could get an estimate and compare prices.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2004, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by asennad
A '92 and you say the truck looks good after a wash and wax? Does not sound to me like you need a paint job!

Go to www.autopia-carcare.com which is a detailing forum. They will tell you how and what to use on your car to make it look like new.

Another option is too just shoot another clear coat on top of the existing paint.
I wouldn't consider shooting another coat of clear on an already cured paint job. Clears don't have good adhesion abilities. They are designed to be sprayed onto the color coat within a certain time so they can chemically bond.

As for the body rate, it depends on the area you are in. The shops here are currently in the $34.00/$36.00 per hour range and due to increase soon. Not far from here they are around $40.00
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Old 01-11-2004, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kenseth17
The guy is giving you a good deal. Find his favorite frosty beverage and pick up a case before going there (don't let him drink any till the car is painted though) maybe it will drop to $300. Shops charge $45.00/hr around here. What paint you go with depends on what you are expecting. If you want it to look good for 4 years or so, use the omni. If you want it to look better and last longer use the higher lines from ppg, dupont, r-m, sikkens, house of color. There are many good paint companys out there. From what I remember about the omni clear it looked decent but ran easy if you put it on a little heavy. This was when it first came out though. I haven't used it for years. You need as many coats of base as it takes to cover. Could be two, could be more depending on how it covers(spray till hiding). Sometimes you get a color that won't cover and you are spraying it forever. It usually takes me about a quart 1/2 of mixed paint to put a coat on an average sized vehicle. If he is using an hvlp gun it will go further, but being a retired guy, he is probably using a conventional gun. You have to look at the mixing ratio and find out how much paint you will have when the paint is mixed with the reducer. If you run out it is a pain going to get more mixed. If you buy a whole gallon of base you should have more then enough and have left over for anything you would have to touchup in the future, reds are the most expensive and if it has pearl in it gets even higher. I would get a gallon of clear and would put on three coats of clear for wetsanding and buffing. Evercoat makes good fillers, as well as many others. The best primer is a urethane primer that has a hardener with it. If you only have 2 small dents to fill I would buy a quart of plastic filler, you can always pick up more if needed. Go to autocolorlibrary.com to get an idea of prices and ppg's website is ppg.com. Click on auto refinish when you get there. You could also look into paintless dent repair if the two dents are small and having it detailed, but at the price the guy is giving you, i think I would go the painting route, but you could get an estimate and compare prices.
Thanks again.All of that info really helps.I want the paint to look good for as long as possible.At least another 5 years so it would look good if the truck lasts that long when I go trade it.I know that PPG doesn't match factory auto colors,but if I chose a certain shade of red,for example,"Sunfire Red",and Robert ran out of it in the process of painting,could I go buy another gallon of "Sunfire Red",him mix it,spray it,etc. the same,and it match?I gave all of that as an example,just in case.I think that a gallon should do it though .There's a paint store in Jackson and that is where I'll get all of my supplies.What are some of the higher lines of PPG Paint?I understand that the higher lines will last longer and look better,which is what I want.I would like to keep material costs below $400 if possible.I don't think that 1 gallon of primer and 1 gallon of paint and clear would cost over that lol.But who knows...

Thanks again.I'll check out those links and start to get me a price list together.Keep the idears coming .

Nightrain

Here's the paint that I'm looking at right now.It's the Bright Red Solid.I see that it's $210 a gallon,but if it will last,it would be worth it.Is that a good line to go with?

Nightrain

Last edited by nightrain_rod; 01-11-2004 at 08:31 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2004, 11:46 PM
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A coat of clear over the old paint would last about as long as the wax job, And then would look like a leopard.

Troy

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69 ss chevelle bb conv.fresh frame off
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Old 01-12-2004, 03:12 PM
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Go to ppg's website and check out there paint, The more expensive are the higher lines. Omni mae is the lowest a single stage acrylic enamel, then just above that the omni base, clear. I would recomend a base clear for any metallic or pearl colors(for wetsanding, buffing purposes, and ease of application) and a clear will give you a deeper look and protection from fading. PPG does have factory colors, but not in the mae line I believe. Then higher is the deltron lines. I am not sure about the global line as I have never used it. The bodyshops I've worked in have used the dupont chromabase system or the ppg deltron system. $400 wont get you far for materials in the upper lines expecially with red. You should be fine with a gallon. If you run out on your base its not that big of a deal, just a hassle. You run out of clear you better find some quick, because you want a nice wet even coat, not a panel that has dryed. Remember when you are pricing the paint, get the hardener price and any reducer price too.

ohh, you won't need a gallon of primer if you only have two small dents to fill, you don't have to prime the whole thing if it is just faded and the paint on it is adhering well. If you go with the higher lines you could get three coats of base if there is a big price difference between buying three quarts compared to a gallon since your not doing any jambs thats would be your decision, but if you run out and have to buy more, it would have been cheaper to buy the gallon in the first place. Its really hard to say, depends on how the painter sprays it on and how well it covers. Sometimes in the omni line it is just as cheap to buy a whole gallon as it is to buy 3 quarts. I saw your link for the delstar. I would say that would be a good choice. Its been around longer then omni and its a polyurethane single stage, so It should be better then an acrylic enamel. It doesn't have a clear, but polyurethanes are tough paint. Imron was big years ago which is duponts line of polyurethane, Pierce used it on their firetrucks, we toured the plant back in tech school.

Last edited by kenseth17; 01-12-2004 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 01-13-2004, 01:34 PM
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paint on paint

hey!

Im new to painting and have only sprayed a few vehicles. all of which were outside and turned out great.

Some of the guys have suggested really good advice previously. the tape was a on point. use 3M and masking paper! thin paper bleeds, some tape is way too sticky... messes up custom paint work and is hard to clean off a "tape off and spray" basis.

if your using the same color over the old paint I dont see why you would need primer. I wouldnt even prime it myself , would just sand (320?) down into the color past the clear, spray it ,then clear it. It is probably recomended you use a sealer or adhesion promoter type primer. Im saying I would just spray it
if you ever hit metal use an etcher primer.
I have also bought paint from Napa for the last two vehicles. this turned out to be pretty good paint. easily accessible also.

Hope it turns out great, and you enjoy the experience.

Anyone else like/dislike Napa?
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Old 01-15-2004, 01:40 PM
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If I remember correctly - it's this car which has had clear applied over the original '57 paint. Looks good to me.


http://www.westcoastchoppers.com/cars/57_wagon/d.html
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Old 01-15-2004, 05:42 PM
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It is my understanding that the problem with the clear is "delaminization", where the clear is coming off of the color coat. Anything short of striping the paint and repainting, from what I have seen, will fail in a short time. The clear is coming off because of poor adhesion to the color coat. They stick together because of a chemical reaction. That is why the manufacturers have certain times specified between the coats. You cannot sand off the clear coat and not sand into the color coat to get a proper adhesion without sanding the color coat thin in spots, or leaving some of the "bad" clear on there to peel later.

Can you shoot clear over an old paint job that has no clear on it and get a good finish that will last? Possibly, if done right, with the right products. Can you shoot it over a bad finish of BC/CC, and expect to get a good finish that will last. NO!

Just my opinion, from experience. I only recommend what I have seen that works. Not what I have seen in pictures.
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Old 01-15-2004, 06:24 PM
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You can get clear acrylic enamel, it can be used like any other paint.

A few years ago, and they might still have it , Dupont had a system called 501, it consisted of a lacquer color and a acrylic enamel top coat of clear, it worked really good. I think it was in the early 90s, I used it for several years.

Troy

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69 ss rs bb camaro wifes driver
66 Elcamino 350/all dz parts,ac,windows,loaded,my driver
69 ss chevelle bb conv.fresh frame off
26 T sedan street rod
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Old 01-16-2004, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by troy-curt
You can get clear acrylic enamel, it can be used like any other paint.

A few years ago, and they might still have it , Dupont had a system called 501, it consisted of a lacquer color and a acrylic enamel top coat of clear, it worked really good. I think it was in the early 90s, I used it for several years.

Troy

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69 ss rs full custom camaro 98 ISCA grandchampion
69 ss rs bb camaro wifes driver
66 Elcamino 350/all dz parts,ac,windows,loaded,my driver
69 ss chevelle bb conv.fresh frame off
26 T sedan street rod
Troy... You are definately right. The key is that it has got to have a sound surface to adhere to. Peeling clear coat is not one, and neither is the color coat below it.
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Old 01-16-2004, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kenseth17
I saw your link for the delstar. I would say that would be a good choice. Its been around longer then omni and its a polyurethane single stage, so It should be better then an acrylic enamel. It doesn't have a clear, but polyurethanes are tough paint.
By that,are you saying that it can't have clear sprayed over it?Would it shine just as good?I don't think that's a bad choice myself.It looks like really good paint.I'll get with Robert before I make my final decision and get his opinions.He's been painting all of his life,so he should know something about the best paint and way to go about painting my truck.You think a gallon of clear would do the whole truck?Would it be a good idear to go ahead and get a gallon of clear and an extra quart or two?I think that's what I'll do.The primer,paint,clear,and dent filler is all that I have to buy.He provides the sand paper,masking materials,etc. in the price he gave me.

Nightrain
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