machine shop bias... - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2005, 03:27 PM
Max Keith's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fort Madison,Iowa
Age: 66
Posts: 2,391
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
bad machine shops

You dont want me to even get started on this issue.
I have run into this kind of attitude as well, along with the general attitude of trying to rape me on work done and parts etc.
The only recourse Ive found is to let anyone that will listen know just what a bunch of jerks these kinds of shops are and try to help anyone else from being burned by them.

I guess as well that Im a little sensitive to being called stupid by someone that the only reason Im bringing the stuff to have it worked on is that I cant afford to have a lathe, boring bar, or milling machine, etc, in my garage, or I would be doing it myself and probably put the jerk out of business in the process.
I have enjoyed a rep for being able to put together strong reliable Ford engines over the years, even though I dont do it for a living. Being a non Bow Tie wearer, does have its advantages since most people figure if you can work on a brand engine other than a Chevy, that you have the skills to work on any kind, where, if all you know are Chevy engines, your skills are extremely limited.

    Advertisement

Last edited by Max Keith; 02-03-2005 at 03:27 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2005, 03:32 PM
King of my Man-cave.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Michigan
Age: 55
Posts: 2,899
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Those guys won't work on anything but Chevys 'cause they are too stupid to realize that engines are all pretty much the same under the valve covers.

I will tease my customers about their choice of engines, no matter what the make is. Heck, the customer expects some kind of conversation about his stuff. But I never denigrate his choice. Besides, I'd get REAL tired working on nothing but Chevys (or Fords, or Mopars, etc.).

My customers find out that I am very accomodating to their particular needs or requirements as long as it doesn't compromise the quality of work. I will not, however, perform machine work that I know will not do as the customer thinks or that will cause damage. The customer is always right as long as he knows what he is talking about. But if he doesn't, I am obligated to help him out.

tom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2005, 03:51 PM
Mighty Mouse S-10's Avatar
Cleverly disguised as grownup
 

Last journal entry: Hollman & Moody
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Huntersville, N.C.
Age: 56
Posts: 140
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I didn't realize how fortunate we are in the Charlotte area. We have several reputable machine shops around here that will do about anything you want. I guess its because of all the race teams in the area. Their a little on the expensive side but you get what you pay for, and evidently that is kind of rare.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2005, 03:52 PM
johnsongrass1's Avatar
Race it, Don't rice it!
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Columbia, Mo
Age: 38
Posts: 4,097
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Exactly Tom, I don't even expect an hour conversation or anything but if the guy knows what you are doing then it may even provide more quality to his customers. Same guy, I asked about angle milling some dart heads .185. His comment was rude and unintellictual. He said "they won't go that far". I told him hendren does it for me all the time. How are they getting away with it?
Then he says, "Welllllll, you can but YOU don't want to because it means hand fitting a bunch of other stuff and YOU wouldn't want to get into it". By assuming the customer is dumb and ingnorant has never gone over well with me. He could of said, sure as long as you know what you are doing and possibily asked more questions to ensure I knew what I was getting into.

Then there are other day's. Hes' the nicest guy you have ever met and willing to bend over just to satistify you every wimm(sp?). I don't get it. But you know, with out customers...It's gonna come around...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2005, 09:10 PM
coldknock's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Social Circle, Ga.
Age: 43
Posts: 1,528
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
It took me almost a year to find a shop with a BHJ block fixture, or anything similar. 16 shops and only three of them knew what I was talking about.

I got out the yellow pages and got addresses. Rode around until I found one with a race car in the parking lot. That's how I found Ewing Machine in Snellville, Ga. Nice, knowledgable people and a very well equipped shop. I've been going there ever since. I pass by 8 places on the 45 minute drive up there. It doesn't bother me a bit because I know I'll get what I ask for every time.

Larry
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2005, 12:20 PM
Fragzem's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island
Age: 30
Posts: 160
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
there's something called the Better Business Bureau.. I'm sure none of these places belong... heh

Anyway.... if you're ever in New York, I can point you to the right shop.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2005, 05:03 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lakeland FL
Age: 65
Posts: 4,110
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Maybe coldknock hit the key point, he may only have GM machining fixtures and doesn't want to mess with a tear down and set up (which you will pay for).

It took alot of ok to bad motors to find the best machine shop. One thing that I say is a plus if the shop does race motors....lead time to do your motor. If the waiting list is long for the size of the shop.....that's probably a good thing.

As Max wrote...."don't get me started", took a SBF short block to a good reputable Chevy race shop...idiot assembled the rods backwards (numbers in)...."I know I'm right they are assembled correct". Yeah right!

So as the others posted, it's his shop, he can do whatever the hell he wants.....but so can you (go elsewhere)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2005, 07:35 AM
King of my Man-cave.
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Michigan
Age: 55
Posts: 2,899
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by red65mustang

It took alot of ok to bad motors to find the best machine shop. One thing that I say is a plus if the shop does race motors....lead time to do your motor. If the waiting list is long for the size of the shop.....that's probably a good thing.
[/B]
Just because a shop does "race motors" doesn't mean they do great work. I've seen work done on street engines (performed by big-name "race engine" specialists) that was simply not good enough for a reliable, good-running street engine. There is a big difference between a street engine (like most of the the guys here are building) and a race engine.

Race engines are built for a specific purpose and are not intended for long street life. The guys who build them are not necessarily up on the latest techniques that are applied to street engines. The clearances and parameters used in race motors are simply not compatible with most street motors.

A guy who knows his stuff on street engines is likely to build a good race engine, but a "race engine specialist" can have trouble building a good street engine that lasts more that a summer.

tom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2005, 09:38 AM
Max Keith's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fort Madison,Iowa
Age: 66
Posts: 2,391
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
when machine shops go bad

Very good food for thought Machine Shop Tom.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-05-2005, 05:50 PM
Troadster's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Blountville,TN
Age: 49
Posts: 76
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have been dealing with one shop for years. And yes the have make a couple of mistakes on my stuff. But because I check every thing I found the mistake. Just because it is from the shop does not mean it is right. People do make mistakes. But those guys fix the mistake and apologized for it. That makes it nice. OOOo by the way going there is fun Two guys own it, one Ford the other Chevy, it can be a Hoot. But if you got a question on an engine you are building they will help in any way. And even understand weird ones like me who build engines for friend's, and tell them what clearances I want. LOL as someone said before Just my 2 cents.....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2005, 03:47 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lakeland FL
Age: 65
Posts: 4,110
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Tom, and all....

Correction: should have written "performance engine shop".

I do agree, a full race engine shop could be a bad choice for a mild street engine.

The "race engine" shop I use in Tampa does all from 1/4 mile circle track 4 banger, bomber, cars etc. on up to Sebring 12 hour motors for examples.

Re-phrase the point (I screwed up) I was trying to make: The first question I ask any new vendor is lead time to help evaluate him and his quality of work based on the size of the shop.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2005, 12:36 PM
NAIRB's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: cimarron, ks
Posts: 1,658
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
I ususally give the customer what they want, unless it has the possibility of tarnishing my own reputation, like using junk parts or asking to cut corners.

Some guys know what they are doing, some don't.

From a shop owner's standpoint, you have to look at both sides of the deal.

If a customer does want you to do something that is questionable, who is going to get blamed when the engine fails? Putting engines together, or tuning them is a separate issue from performing machine work, alot of times a cusomer thinks they know what needs to be done, when they really don't.

If a customer wants me to zero deck a block, then I'll do it. If they want me to put a set of heads together with CAT valve locks, I won't do it. If they want me to put cheap Chinese valves in a racing engine, I won't do that either. If the engine fails, the shop is going to get bad-mouthed one way or the other..

If a guy wants me to build a set of AMC or Ford heads, that's fine wiht me, it breaks the boredome of doing one Chevy after another for me.

The work performed has to work both ways for the customer and the shop. If a shop is set up for Chevy stuff, and that's their bread and butter, and they are busy, it's up to the shop owner to decide which jobs to do and which ones not to do. If he's covered up with production style work (same parts, same set-up), he's going to make more money doing the redundant Chevy work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2005, 01:01 PM
coldknock's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Social Circle, Ga.
Age: 43
Posts: 1,528
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally posted by machine shop tom
Just because a shop does "race motors" doesn't mean they do great work. I've seen work done on street engines (performed by big-name "race engine" specialists) that was simply not good enough for a reliable, good-running street engine. There is a big difference between a street engine (like most of the the guys here are building) and a race engine.

Race engines are built for a specific purpose and are not intended for long street life. The guys who build them are not necessarily up on the latest techniques that are applied to street engines. The clearances and parameters used in race motors are simply not compatible with most street motors.

A guy who knows his stuff on street engines is likely to build a good race engine, but a "race engine specialist" can have trouble building a good street engine that lasts more that a summer.

tom
Good points Tom, I never look at things quite like that. I'm one of the fruitcakes that drives his race car to the grocery store.

Larry
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2005, 01:06 PM
Max Keith's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Fort Madison,Iowa
Age: 66
Posts: 2,391
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
machine shops

Ah but coldknock, how else would that gallon of milk get from the Supermarket to the fridge in 60 seconds?

Or that gal that you met at the company picnic go from a 0 to a 10 in a 6 pack?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-06-2005, 01:40 PM
coldknock's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Social Circle, Ga.
Age: 43
Posts: 1,528
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: machine shops

Quote:
Originally posted by Max Keith
Ah but coldknock, how else would that gallon of milk get from the Supermarket to the fridge in 60 seconds?

Or that gal that you met at the company picnic go from a 0 to a 10 in a 6 pack?
Well, I do get the milk home in a hurry but I got banned from the company pikaniks for doing burnouts and laying rubber across the parking lot. Dang commies.

As for the gals, I have no further comment.

Larry
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.