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Old 12-20-2007, 11:22 AM
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Machinist Opinion Needed

last spring i took a 406 sbc to a successful machine shop that i have used for yrs.circle track racers drop their engines off in the fall or winter and get them back for spring.this shop ownwer has had the place for many yrs. and it was the first time i know of that they had no help.a couple guys went to other jobs and a couple were fired which left them with engine installers and the owner who come to find out had not done any machine work in a very long time.there was one job in front of mine.51/2 wks. later when i was getting upset because mine wasn't done,the other job wasn't either.i had wanted to have it in time for the good guys event but its still on the stand.when i got it back the machining for bigger v. springs looked like hell.i could except that as much as i would like not too.when i start putting the engine together i found that the align honing he was suppose to do so i could use studs,had been overly done.the caps were ground excesslively.the first four were useable but when i got to the the rear cap it would not hold a new bearing in place.when you turn it over to install it on the block the bearing would fall out even though it measured ok.ground exccessively.i had bought the block from this guy 2 yrs. previous and all the caps were just fine.never been machined before except maybe honing.i went a little farther and installed a new oil pump stud and started to tighten the nut.it never took any pressure at all when the top of the cap cracked around the bolt hole completely.the guy is not going to assume any responsibility for this at all.you had to be there.i have never seen this guy act like this before.he has always been very nice and professional.i'm sorry for the short story but here's my dilema.the crank i used is nearly new.i had used it very breifly in another block but had other troubles with it so had to go to this new block. i had the crank in it the summer before last.i took the rear cap off that block and used it on this block.the only problem is that the side registers are not tight.i was waiting to take it to another shop to pay for it all over again after buying new caps.i just wondered if i would get anywhere with it as is or how long it would last.the rest of the caps are tight and fit well enough.its just that rear cap that scare's me.you should have to tap the cap in place before bolting it.this one just slid into place but fits other than that just fine.someboby please give me some good info.

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Last edited by GoneNova/406; 12-20-2007 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 12-20-2007, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneNova/406
last spring i took a 406 sbc to a successful machine shop that i have used for yrs.circle track racers drop their engines off in the fall or winter and get them back for spring.this shop ownwer has had the place for many yrs. and it was the first time i know of that they had no help.a couple guys went to other jobs and a couple were fired which left them with engine installers and the owner who come to find out had not done any machine work in a very long time.there was one job in front of mine.51/2 wks. later when i was getting upset because mine wasn't done,the other job wasn't either.i had wanted to have it in time for the good guys event but its still on the stand.when i got it back the machining for bigger v. springs looked like hell.i could except that as much as i would like not too.when i start putting the engine together i found that the align honing he was suppose to do so i could use studs,had been overly done.the caps were ground excesslively.the first four were useable but when i got to the the rear cap it would not hold a new bearing in place.when you turn it over to install it on the block the bearing would fall out even though it measured ok.ground exccessively.i had bought the block from this guy 2 yrs. previous and all the caps were just fine.never been machined before except maybe honing.i went a little farther and installed a new oil pump stud and started to tighten the nut.it never took any pressure at all when the top of the cap cracked around the bolt hole completely.the guy is not going to assume any responsibility for this at all.you had to be there.i have never seen this guy act like this before.he has always been very nice and professional.i'm sorry for the short story but here's my dilema.the crank i used is nearly new.i had used it very breifly in another block but had other troubles with it so had to go to this new block. i had the crank in it the summer before last.i took the rear cap off that block and used it on this block.the only problem is that the side registers are not tight.i was waiting to take it to another shop to pay for it all over again after buying new caps.i just wondered if i would get anywhere with it as is or how long it would last.the rest of the caps are tight and fit well enough.its just that rear cap that scare's me.you should have to tap the cap in place before bolting it.this one just slid into place but fits other than that just fine.someboby please give me some good info.
Oh boy! The side registers need to be almost press fight tight, other wise the cap will slide around. The bolts are not intended to carry those loads and woun't keep the cap from moving side to side.

At this point I'm not even sure the block is salvageable. At a minimum, all the caps would have to be replaced and the registers or caps remachined for proper fit. Then the bearing bores would need to be rebored. The problem now is that too much material may have been removed from the bearing saddles to where the proper alignment front to rear nor the proper height to the cam bore cannot be achived.

You really need to find a competent shop to look at this and determine the specific issues inorder to see if any fix can be accomplished.

Bogie
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Old 12-20-2007, 01:39 PM
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block

"You really need to find a competent shop to look at this and determine the specific issues inorder to see if any fix can be accomplished."

I agree with bogie on this one. you are not going to fix this over the net. You really need to have some one look at it in person to make the call.


Keith
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:26 PM
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well thanks guys.thants not what i wanted to here but what i infact feared.i saw something about this in a magazine or on one of the car shows on t.v. thats why i haven't done anything with it yet.thanks again.
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:35 PM
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You need to start over with another block. About 250-300 miles to the east of you is York, Pa. There is a feller there that goes by the name of k-star. Might be worth a day trip to have him talk over engine stuff wit ya.

tom
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:04 PM
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guys i seem to remember an article or seeing on t.v. all the machine work and align boring or honing and one of the last things to do with the bottom end was to take a wedge something like a chisle but with no sharp edge and they wacked the rear cap register on both sides.it didn't hit me then but it did just a little while ago. they were tightening the cap or register.is that correct?cause if it is i may not be far from a remedy.i appreciate all the help.i know about most things but every time i need help its with something off the wall.

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Old 12-20-2007, 08:09 PM
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That is something that is done in the field and it works if the block is not to bad. Some times it works other times i have seen the caps get loose again.
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:24 PM
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JB weld? 3M weather strip adhesive? LOL A mig welder? Hey, anything in a pinch right!
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:24 PM
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well i jave some money in this motor and i'm not about to waste it but this may work.the other caps go to this block and still fit well enough that i am not concerned and the rear was as i said was on this crank in another block that i have since the shop owner trashed mine.the only thing is that it does not fit tight in the register.its not loose or sloppy.it just slides in.one thing i am not sure of since i can't remember where i saw this.is if its done cold or hot.i'm thinking cold.i want it to be right but i am trying to avoid more money and undoing what i have done.maybe i should check with fowlers or someone like that in person now that i have even a chance of getting away with it.my luck just doesn't seem to run that way though.thanks again
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Old 12-21-2007, 06:13 AM
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If that cap was on another block the bore on it probably won't line up anyway. It would need to be line bored/honed to bring it back in. In this case I would ask the new shop if they have any tighter fitting caps around then get that setup bored/honed.
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Old 12-21-2007, 06:56 AM
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Junk the block.

Get another one and start over, or buy a Dart Little M.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:29 PM
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this cap came off my other 406 block that i had to retire for other reasons.i had it out and apart for improvements not problems several time and it only had a few months on it when it last came out.i attemted to to run the hand hone on the cylinders when the new stones on it gouged the walls in a couple of cylinders.yes i used lube and i was onlyattempting to clean and cross hatch at the time.it had all the same machine work done to it that this one did.the cap is sitting on the same crank and its new.the measurement as i said before is good to go.the only thing that bothers me is that i did not have to tap the cap into place.it slid in with no difficulty.not loose and not sloppy.just not tight.so its the register that is the problem.i know alot of people would go with it and i might to but the vehicle its going in is just too much work getting it in and out for me to want to waste my time and money.also the one job that was in front of mine when i took the block in last spring was another sbc race block that had new billet caps to machine.i'm thinking that since this guy had not done any machine work in a very long time that he may have started with my block to warm up to the billet caps on the other one.
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:51 PM
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Listen to K-star & Old Bogie, It needs to be checked out but not by the last Jethro that mangled it for you.
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