Hot Rod Forum banner

making suicide doors. what problems can i expect

16K views 37 replies 18 participants last post by  deadbodyman 
#1 ·
my friend has chevy 1970 4door impala and we were gonna make suicide doors on it. since school is out now, how long should it take?
 
#4 ·
I have to tell you, I have done them and it is a VERY complex project. I have chopped tops, sectioned bodies and the like, suicide doors are by far the most challenging.

Honestly, I think the time spent would be much better used on detailing on the car. Detailing is MUCH more bang for your buck and makes more sense than making your doors open "wrong". :)
 
#5 ·
If you have some body experience, like welding and faibing parts and custom panels, then go for it. It is quiet a task, but when finished you can back up and say, I did it. If you let the fear of to hard of a project scare you off, then you'll never know if you could have done it or not.

Troy

__________________
If you don't make mistakes. your not doing anything.

69 ss rs full custom camaro 98 ISCA grandchampion
69 ss rs bb camaro wifes driver
66 Elcamino 350/all dz parts,ac,windows,loaded,my driver
69 ss chevelle bb conv.fresh frame off
26 T sedan street rod
 
#6 ·
MARTINSR said:
I
Honestly, I think the time spent would be much better used on detailing on the car. Detailing is MUCH more bang for your buck and makes more sense than making your doors open "wrong". :)
hahaha nice. thats what we thought too. but you know how the old impalas kind of have that small tear drop shape in the fenders. well his whole side got killed by an old lady, and we have to put a whole new body to the side of it. we couldnt even figure out how to bang it out. its just that bad and the lines are so subtle to the tear. so we figured we could just for fun do the suicide doors at the same time.

and i'd never heard of the safety locks, thinking about that now kind of scars me hahaha. i'll have to grab some. thanks a bunch guys

i love how i can get on here and get so much help really fast :thumbup:
 
#7 ·
Since you are getting some encouragment I thought I better leave you some real info.

How long? The last one I did where I kept time was 60 hours, that is a week and a half of full time work by a pro in a shop with all the tools at my disposal. It was a very easy project being a VW bug, a four door Impala, I'd say would be more like two hundred hours, minimum.
I don't know your skill level, but to an average home hobbyest that means about 500 to 600 hours. That may not sound too encuraging, but that is the facts as I see it.

The biggest problem with the project will be the center post. If it were a two door, the job would be a lot easier, and not just because you have two more doors. Which of course doesn't mean you would have to do all four, in fact just doing the fronts or the backs would be cooler in my opinion. A 34 Four Phaeton had just the fronts suicide for instance, or the 65 Lincoln had only the rears. That is the style I HIGHLY recommend for you. Doing the rears, as hard as that will be is a like grabbing a taco off the roach coach compared to the front doors.

The problem with the front doors is that center post. It just isn't big enough and the rear door gets in the way of where you would have to mount the hinges. Or more importantly, where your hinge pin placement would have to be. It would take MAJOR fabrication to pull that off.

The rears have a whole different problem, one that is almost as difficult to overcome, but more doable. The problem there is the narrow area you have to mount the hinges up over the dog leg. On that 65 Lincoln for instance it has no "dog leg". The quarter comes right over the wheel well down to the rocker. This leaves the whole height of the body to mount the hinges that will support that heavy door. Instead of having almost two feet to mount your two hinges, your Impala has about one foot, that is a BIG difference when you talk about multiplying leverage from the weight of that door!

The hinges and hinge post on the body as well as in the door will have to be MUCH, MUCH stronger than if it were like the Lincoln. You will have to make some SERIOUS tubing supports from the top of that hinge mounting pillar to the rear of the roof area, or triagulate it down to the wheel house, SOMETHING has to be seriously done to make it strong enough. If you don't have some good fabrication skills with a good understanding of how forces interact, forget it.

Below is the reason why center post poses such a problem. The hinge pin MUST be out right at the skin to allow the door to move out in the arc BEFORE it starts moving back. You can see at the red line in the front how the "B" figure is moving back before the door starts to actually go out. If you look at suicide doors on cars the next show you are at, you will see a LOT of guys failed to get this point. The rear door gap is either HUGE, or the rear of the door can't be lined up nice with the quarter, if it was the door would hit the quarter as it is opened. On the front doors of your car, this would be EXTREMELY difficult to pull off.

Well there you go, some problems your will come up against. If you really want to do it, post here with your questions. We will be glad to help. :welcome:

 
#8 ·
i knew it was going to be hard but wow. basically i dont have a welder i dont know how to weld at all. (the real way i guess) i can do it. and it looks nice and they are really strong, i do alot of fabrication but not on that scale and im really good with this kind of thing, its funny in my mind becuase i've never really done any alterations on a cars body or anytinhg and i had to try this first.

the gaps., *Sigh* ive seen too many cruddy jobs like that, for some reason the preps at our school, the ones with those little asain imports, a couple of those redid the doors to suicide doors and it just looks awful, i've seen 2 inche gaps and nothing aligns.

me and my friend were just going to make the back doors into suicide doors. im wondering if i could just fabricate a whole new section into it. make it look a little different, as soon as i can docotor up an image i'll post it to show you what i mean. becuase i can texplain anything *sigh* and for some reason i cant find any pictures of 1970 4 door impala's. strange:confused:

thanks for the diagram though. that will be useful, as his brother is redoing his duster.
 
#9 ·
MartinSR....Your theory is correct about the doorskin hitting the 1/4 because of the arc of the swing...BUT....in your drawing the hinges are drawn backwards. The flat part of the hinge should be installed closest to the doorskin NOT the door panel.That way when the door does swing open...it swings out and open. Its kinda hard to explain without a picture, so give me a few minutes, and I'll show you.
Later,
WEIMER
 
#10 ·
The hinges that you are showing him to use have the similarities of a cabinet hinge... This is what I am trying to explain.
Just for future reference;) I am NOT a graphic artist:p

There is a "pocket" that the hinge actually sits in on the door...kind of a C-Channel pocket.
Later,
WEIMER
 

Attachments

#11 · (Edited)
Weimer, we are both right, the shape of the hinge as I have it or you have it would make no difference. As long as the arch in the hinge allowed for clearance to the jamb, and the pin was placed in the right place, they would both work.

My drawing is almost exactly like an "AD" Chevy pick up (47- first series 55) or a 53-56 Ford F-100.
Now, with the hinge pin on yours so far from the quarter skin, that would still create the problem (though to a lesser degree) as my "B" graffic. Where the hinge mounts to the door, or the shape of the hinge really doesn't make that big of a difference. As long as it clears the jamb as the door swings out. You have the start of the arc way out where the hinge mounts to the door, that is not where it begins. It begins at the hinge pin.

The hinge it's self could be a big loop two feet into the car with a speaker mounted to it. :)
That would not change the way the door opens, the pin placement does.
 
#15 ·
What MartinSr. is talking about though is suiciding a 4 door not a two door. and by the time everything is changes around the center post is the problem. Take a look at the old Continentals (61-65) AND THE '70 OR '71 T-Bird. For the average person it would be a major undertaking. Even for an experience person it would be a major undertaking. Your best bet would be to put on new sides, shave everything, and have a cool ride that way.

Kevin
 
#16 ·
Weimer, we will have to agree to disagree some of this stuff. I read thru Suicide.coms site a long time ago and did it again just now to be sure I wasn't jumping to conclusions. But I don't agree with many of the things he does. There was a guy who did a 56 Chevy truck on a site I visit, I will try to find his site, that guy did a beautiful job and documented it well.

Anyone who says something like "don't grind the weld down to keep it strong", or "Use paint stripper" to remove the paint around a weld site instead of using a Roloc "Surface conditioning disc" shouldn't be taken to seriously. :rolleyes:
 
#17 ·
MARTINSR said:
Weimer, we will have to agree to disagree some of this stuff. I read thru Suicide.coms site a long time ago and did it again just now to be sure I wasn't jumping to conclusions. But I don't agree with many of the things he does. There was a guy who did a 56 Chevy truck on a site I visit, I will try to find his site, that guy did a beautiful job and documented it well.

Anyone who says something like "don't grind the weld down to keep it strong", or "Use paint stripper" to remove the paint around a weld site instead of using a Roloc "Surface conditioning disc" shouldn't be taken to seriously. :rolleyes:
HaHaHa!!I see what you are saying....BUT I have actually bought several things from the Thorbecke brothers and can tell....They do very very good work(except for the above quotes):D There are 3 brothers....Jason is the front man, Adam is the welder, Luke is the Fab'r....Jason is who you quoted.
I would like to see the article that you are talking about. I am still considering doing a suicide-job on my S10. Probably not this year, probably next...but I would like to see how other people have done theirs also.
 
#18 ·
Suicide doors?

They are BETTER doors as far as getting in and out of vehciles go, but they have also earned a name that fits the problems that occour when the door is opened in front traffic coming up from behind.


There is something about that, that like most very old motor cyclists, refuse to have both front and rear crash bars on motorcyles......

Personally I prefer to build survivavbility into things - not out of them.
 
#21 ·
This is a 6 years old post and you probably will not get an answer. Did you ever wonder why these "backward" doors are called suicide doors? It is because they have been inadvertently opened while cruising down the road and at best, have peeled back and done great damage to the door and the side of the car that catches it after the check arms have been ripped loose. At worst, the unthinking operator, who was no mental giant at the onset, clings to the handle long enough to depart the vehicle. Some times, you have to live in the short lived era of suicide doors to know the dangers.

Trees
 
#22 ·
Yep, NSRA Western StreetRod Nationals in Merced California 1979 as I remember. A friend of mine with a chopped Deuce 3W was driving thru town and his wife fell out and went UNDER the door as the car passed over her. She had some serious road rash but otherwise VERY lucky.

Brian
 
#23 · (Edited)
If someone is reading this ancient thread but the three or four of us, here are the parts needed (but it really doesn't tell you that you do need some other skills as well??)

http://qualityairride.com/catalog/suicide-hinges

For me - not really

Then there are the Lambo and gull doors:

http://www.verticalrides.com/

Also, not in my tastes

Dave W

OMG - They even have Lambo's for my F350 (which IMO don't do a thing for it)
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top