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Old 01-05-2012, 01:46 PM
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mandrel bends

Are mandrel bends stronger for doing say roll cages and frame re- inforcements? Need to make a cage and re-inforce my frame, if mandrel bends are stronger would it be wise to buy a bench of bends in the right diameter then weld them to the straight pieces? I'm thinlking of buying one of those China hydraulic benders from Harbor Freight, Anyone ever use one? Are they worth it? Thanks, Slappy.

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Old 01-05-2012, 01:49 PM
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Welcome aboard, you might try posting this in the basic section.


Cole
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:36 PM
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Mandrel bends

How can I copy this post to where you suggested? I never know which forum to post things on.
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Old 01-05-2012, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapz
How can I copy this post to where you suggested? I never know which forum to post things on.
Someone has moved it for you.


Cole
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Old 01-05-2012, 03:02 PM
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mandrel bends

Very good,howdja do dat?
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Old 01-05-2012, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapz
Very good,howdja do dat?
You have to be a moderator to move a post from one forum to another.

To make a roll cage should be continuous tubes, not pieces spliced together like welding curved sections to straight sections. If this is the bender you're thinking of buying



DON'T DO IT. That is a PIPE bender and will kink/flatten roll bar TUBING, which will weaken the tubing. Pipe is sized by ID, tubing is sized by OD, so the dies for a pipe bender are not the right size for tubing dies.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slapz
Are mandrel bends stronger for doing say roll cages and frame re- inforcements? Need to make a cage and re-inforce my frame, if mandrel bends are stronger would it be wise to buy a bench of bends in the right diameter then weld them to the straight pieces? I'm thinlking of buying one of those China hydraulic benders from Harbor Freight, Anyone ever use one? Are they worth it? Thanks, Slappy.
The very best price for a nice rollbar or rollcage begins with buying a tubing kit from one of the suppliers.
By the way, the 8-point structure that you see in this link is a rollbar, not a rollcage...
http://www.rollcagecomponents.com/index.htm
Click on Drag Roll Cages....
There are others of course,
http://www.swracecars.com/store/Roll...-OSCAR_24.aspx
http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-163-...drag-race.aspx

The other thing is, if you're not a certified aircraft welder, DO NOT weld it yourself. Tack if together and then call a dude with a portable rig to do the welding for you.

I wrote a piece on rollbars a while back for the wiki. Then I retired and have not kept up with the current rules for this year, but the rules and procedures that I outlined when I wrote it will mostly be valid. Get a current N.H.R.A. Rulebook from Jegs or Summit. Read it.

Here's the piece on rollbars...
http://www.rollcagecomponents.com/index.htm
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:34 AM
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Mandrel bends

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd36
You have to be a moderator to move a post from one forum to another.

To make a roll cage should be continuous tubes, not pieces spliced together like welding curved sections to straight sections. If this is the bender you're thinking of buying



DON'T DO IT. That is a PIPE bender and will kink/flatten roll bar TUBING, which will weaken the tubing. Pipe is sized by ID, tubing is sized by OD, so the dies for a pipe bender are not the right size for tubing dies.



Hey I REALLY apreciate the advice and yes that was the one. I have built a lot of exhaust systems by welding pieces together. I have some inserts that expand to the size of the I.D. and extend into the pipe about an inch on both sides, then you can get a nice weld through on all of it, I wouldn't grind down the welds to weaken them. The cage I want to build is more for making the frame more solid. I'm putting a 383 blown motor (648 hp) in a '54 Chev P/U going to be mountred on a 41 Chev car frame. I picked up the frame from a friend. It is a square frame so no need to box the stock c-channel and it already has a Mustang I.F.S. welded in. Saves a bunch of work. Planning on a front motor plate and maybe a mid plate too. Am going to re-inforce frame with probably 1 1/2 dom tubing. Eventually may 4 link it but I'm on a limited budget so I have to do the things necessary to get it up and running then replace things as I break them (LOL). Thanks again.
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:55 AM
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oll cages

Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1
The very best price for a nice rollbar or rollcage begins with buying a tubing kit from one of the suppliers.
By the way, the 8-point structure that you see in this link is a rollbar, not a rollcage...
http://www.rollcagecomponents.com/index.htm
Click on Drag Roll Cages....
There are others of course,
http://www.swracecars.com/store/Roll...-OSCAR_24.aspx
http://www.cachassisworks.com/c-163-...drag-race.aspx

The other thing is, if you're not a certified aircraft welder, DO NOT weld it yourself. Tack if together and then call a dude with a portable rig to do the welding for you.

I wrote a piece on rollbars a while back for the wiki. Then I retired and have not kept up with the current rules for this year, but the rules and procedures that I outlined when I wrote it will mostly be valid. Get a current N.H.R.A. Rulebook from Jegs or Summit. Read it.

Here's the piece on rollbars...
http://www.rollcagecomponents.com/index.htm


I'm not doing any serious racing with this thing but ya know when your a kid (forever, I'm 65 now) ya always wanted a car with a blower sticking out of the hood (for wood). I would normally never be able to afford to have one built and don't have the resources and knowkedge myself but ran across someone who is in deep financial trouble and had this motor built and couldn't pay to get it out of the shop. Fortune smiles on ya every now and then and I got this motor CHEAP. It's got a Dyers blower, Dart alum pro1 heads, Scat crank and on and on. All the good stuff. I bought it for less then you could buy the parts for. I already had planned on putting in a 355 with dueces for nostalgic reasons. I'm not real familiar with the ins and outs of blower motors but am trying to learn. This site is a Godsend. Lots of info and decent guys unlike one other site I got on that were/are a bunch of ******** dickheads.
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Old 01-06-2012, 07:29 PM
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You can probably purchase a roll bar/cage from one of the suppliers noted specifically for your car for less than the cost of heavy walled tube u-bends.
Forget the HF thing, we have one sitting in a corner by the scrap pile...used once.

Do like Tech said, tack it together and have it TIG welded by someone that knows their way around this stuff. Since it is structrual you would like it to be functional too if you go on your head...I would think.

Splices need to be about 4 diameters long on each side of the joint, holes for plug welds etc. SFI spec that NHRA uses have these called out very specifically. They have done their home work on this and have lots of experiences (crashes) to hone the specs we see today.
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Old 01-07-2012, 07:41 AM
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Mandrel bends

Thanks for the advice. I looked at some of those cages on the sites that were sent to me. One was very reasonable at $298. I have a friend that welds race cars frames. I already have the SBC with the dueces in the frame but now need to move motor further forward or have the blower in the cab with me. It was suggested to use a motor plate for rigidity and it makes sense. I don't think a couple of bolts through a rubber mount and a cople of washers is going to control that hp. Wonder if I'll need a mid plate too? I'm running a Muncie 220 as I want something that reminds me of the muscle cars I had back in the 60's. Automatic? Grandma's car had an automatic. I have a TH400 that's for sale on this site if anyone's interested. We wouldn't have any respect back then driving an auto. This is going to be driven on the streets FOR FUN. Isn't that what it's all about? Since I picked up this blower motor things are getting serious!
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:30 PM
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I don't see any good reasons for running a solid plate mount. This would transmit and unbelievable amount of noise from the motor to the frame and interior of the car. It's bad enough from just a Holley "blue" fuel pump. I have used urethane mounts for 2 years and 18k miles and nothing is broken. It will be very unlikely you would ever get enough traction to break anything unless you run slicks. If you do the first time you get loose in some water will be a real eye opener.

Why would you need solid mounts for this kind of cruize??
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentwings
I don't see any good reasons for running a solid plate mount. This would transmit and unbelievable amount of noise from the motor to the frame and interior of the car. It's bad enough from just a Holley "blue" fuel pump. I have used urethane mounts for 2 years and 18k miles and nothing is broken. It will be very unlikely you would ever get enough traction to break anything unless you run slicks. If you do the first time you get loose in some water will be a real eye opener.

Why would you need solid mounts for this kind of cruize??
I have to agree with BW, I have a 48 Anglia with a blown BBC, and don't have a motor plate,,,
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:12 AM
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Mandrel bends and motor plates

I was told by a buddy who used to build race frames that the mounts I have in there now probably wouldn't last through the first startup. They're basically stock mounts on the block going through a mounting plate bolted on the frame with thick (1/4") rubber washers sandwiched between a couple of thick washers. He also told me that it would help strengthen the frame which may be a valid point, I don't think '41 Chevy frames were made for blower motors. It is a square frame though and I think with a cage and maybe a 4 link (someday) it would help a bunch. Like you say this will most likely never hook up anyway. I picked up some big Mickey sportsman's at a swap which will look cool until they go up in smoke! I'm running an open rear end too so ya know I'm not going to grab anything but attention. Looking for a Ford 9 inch as I hear they're cheap and available in bone yards across the nation, They made millions of them. This truck has NEVER been together so I have a lot on my plate, mounting the cab, headers, steering, wiring. All the good stuff. I don't expect it to be perfect right out of the gate, i just want to drive it! I'll fix what breaks as it breaks, hopefully it won't be my neck LOL.i

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Old 01-08-2012, 09:46 AM
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Repiles to mandrel bends

Thanks for the comebacks guys and you both have awesome rides. I have a couple of other prokects going on in my garage tying up my space and I need to get them out so I can start playing with this. I've stated before I'm an old muscle car guy from the 60's, have built Harley chopper and bobber show bikes (one made it to mag), but building a street rod from scratch is a new experience. This site is great because of guys like you that want to help. Too bad you weren't near Chicago, you could stop by for a brewski. ya can anyway if your near). later
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