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Old 09-19-2010, 08:46 PM
Landshark928's Avatar
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Many Thanks! And a couple questions. 383

First, thanks to all who have answered questions I've had the last few weeks. Also thanks to those that have posted before, I was able to use the search function to tap into your wisdom. There are many true sages on this board.

It's officially alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Got her running about an hour ago. As always it's the stupid things at the end that frustrate you the most. Like have the timing off a tooth, carb floats flooding the bowls, fuel pressure reg not bleed after setting etc.. Makes for a high tension evening as you fully expect everything to explode after months of work. Okay maybe 3 weeks of work spread out over 11 months...

Got the distro in correctly finally, adjusted the floats, bleed the reg and VAVOOOM!!! Holy crap does this thing sound nasty. I can't wait to go to a POrsche Club of America event now, they'll think Armageddon has arrived. Tomorrow I go for a spin. First I need to continue checking for leaks and temperature stability. I did cycle the clutch and move her in and out of the garage so all is well there. Got her idling at 1000rpms for now to maintain 18" vacuum until I can get the 4 points adjusted tomorrow. Right now I have all four corners of the carb at 1.5 turns out. Floats are set with fuel just barely at bottom of sight glasses.

I'm STOKED!!! Of course I'm already suffering from HP envy and thinking of new heads and 1.6 rockers.

So here are my quick questions.
1. I know I shoot for the highest manifold vacuum when adjusting the four corners, what is a realistic target range? I'm at 18" now at 1.5 turns out at 1000rpms, but if I drop idle to 850 it drops to about 12". I have power brakes and vac on HEI, but no other vacuum drains. Also am I shooting too low for idle with my cam?

2. This is the first time I have used a solid roller cam. The lifters seem to be a little loud, is this normal. ie are hydraulic lifters quieter? How long before I have to readjust lash on a new build? Currently at 0.016" as per cam card.

3. I know there's no stock answer for timing. I set it by ear tonight to get her going. What would you recommend I go for with my combination?


Here's what I have:
383 SBC
Scat forged crank and 6" forged rods
Probe Forged pistons 10.5:1
Lunati Voodoo 60133 Solid Roller w/ Matching lifters. .585/.600" lift, 279/285-249/255@.050" duration
Procomp 210 heads. Bare. Port job. Lunati Springs, Manley valves, 7/16 studs, comp cams 1.5 roller rockers
PP Air Gap RPM style intake, Port matched to heads.
Proform 750 race series carb.
Holley Black Pump w/ PC billet reg.
Long Tube Headers 1 3/4"P x3"C
Magnaflow 3" X pipe, 2 FM Super 44's and turn downs.
Aluminium Billet Flywheel SFI
Pioneer SFI balancer.
Centerforce pressure plate w/ Kevlar clutch. Stock 2.75 LSD rear.
High flow water pump
HEI w/ Streetfire ignition for rev limit.
I'll put the nitrous back on once I have her sorted out well.

I know the PC heads are my limiting factor. I'll upgrade to profilers or AFR after x-mas. However the PC heads I got have been ported, new valve job, all after market springs and valves. 7/16 studs and Comp Cams rockers. Intake ports gasket matched to felpro 1206. PP intake also matched. I got a killer deal at my local shop an the set. Someone ordered the bare 210 heads and had the work done, then never came to pick up. I got them for the cost of the heads alone. No labor. Should bridge the gap until I can afford some big boy heads.

Again thanks for all the help!

Couple gratuitous shots of the engine and the car outside in the misty rain.






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Old 09-19-2010, 09:33 PM
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Solids are solids, whether roller or flat tappet they will be noisier than hydraulics for sure. Can't tell you how much is too loud from a distance, if you are worried run a lash check, it doesn't take long. I'd check them after 1 hour run time just to be sure. Use the EO-IC method, set the intake rocker when the exhaust valve starts to open, set the exhaust rocker when the intake valve just returns to the seat. If parts are good, lash will change very little, if it does you know something is failing (check the roller lifters!)

You want to keep the idle up, 1000-1200 rpm to keep good lubrication to the rollers. Never idle a solid roller slow, leads to early death of the lifters.

Adjusting idle mix for highest vacuum is not always the best, often 1/8-1/4 turn richer from that point is needed for best off idle rsponse.

Timing I would expect around 20-24 initial, 34-38 total.

If your PC heads are done well, you won't pick up a lot with a fancier head unless you go big or full comp port job. The PC's can acheive good #'s well ported. AFR or Profiler will be better, but it may not be as big a jump as you may anticipate for the money spent. If you didn't already have heads it would be a different story, they are hard to beat.
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Old 09-19-2010, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
You want to keep the idle up, 1000-1200 rpm to keep good lubrication to the rollers. Never idle a solid roller slow, leads to early death of the lifters.
Thanks! I did not think of that. I would have turned it down for that nasty, lopey, spurting sound I grew up loving and then ended up trashing my top end.

So if I can maintain 18" of vacuum I should be okay on the power brakes?

On timing, all in should happen by 2500rpms, 3000rpms?
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:22 PM
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My experience shows brakes will be fine to 14", maybe a little lower. Get the timing all in as soon as the engine will tolerate it without detonation, 2500-3000 rpm is a good area to shoot for on a streetable car.
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:17 AM
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A mild/moderate busy mechanical sound at idle is normal for a solid lifter valve train.
Especially if the hood is open and you are standing close to the running engine.
If the valve lash is set too loose the sound will be louder.

Most people set the valve lash too loose.

I recomend setting the valve lash with the engine, dead cold at .002" tighter than what the cam card recommends.

The valve lash will grow a bit as the motor heats up to operating temp.

The resulting running valve lash will be correct when the engine is running.

Ignition timing. A stock timing curve will not work.

You want increased initial idle base timing on this motor.

26 initial at idle 34-36deg total mechanical maxing around 3000 rpm.

To achieve this short curve you must limit the mechanical advance curve travel stop.

Until you can modify the distributor for the correct curve, to get it up and running, simply lock out the mehcanical advance mechanism and set the frozen timing at 34-36deg BTDC.
The locked timing does not advance with rpm.

With the timing set correctly, and the engine warmed up, reset the idle mixture screws for best idle quality. The engine should idle clean steady at 800 rpm.
Once set up correctly increase the idle speed to 1000-1200 rpm. (roller lifter life)

Vacuum advance will need to be set up as well. approx +10deg at hiway cruise speeds.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88
A mild/moderate busy mechanical sound at idle is normal for a solid lifter valve train.
Especially if the hood is open and you are standing close to the running engine.
If the valve lash is set too loose the sound will be louder.

Most people set the valve lash too loose.

I recomend setting the valve lash with the engine, dead cold at .002" tighter than what the cam card recommends.

The valve lash will grow a bit as the motor heats up to operating temp.

The resulting running valve lash will be correct when the engine is running.

Ignition timing. A stock timing curve will not work.

You want increased initial idle base timing on this motor.

26 initial at idle 34-36deg total mechanical maxing around 3000 rpm.

To achieve this short curve you must limit the mechanical advance curve travel stop.

Until you can modify the distributor for the correct curve, to get it up and running, simply lock out the mehcanical advance mechanism and set the frozen timing at 34-36deg BTDC.
The locked timing does not advance with rpm.

With the timing set correctly, and the engine warmed up, reset the idle mixture screws for best idle quality. The engine should idle clean steady at 800 rpm.
Once set up correctly increase the idle speed to 1000-1200 rpm. (roller lifter life)

Vacuum advance will need to be set up as well. approx +10deg at hiway cruise speeds.
Gotcha. I think.

My HEI has a crane adjustable vacuum cannister. So i set the lock out cam to limit travel of the cannister to say 12*, the lowest setting it will go, then come out about 9 turns on the cannister for it to start coming in at about 800rpms. Then I change springs on the weights until I'm all in by 3000 rpms at 47* total advance?

14* initial + 12* vacuum advance + 21* mechanical in by 3000rpms = 47* total?

Or are you saying I need to also limit the total mechanical advance as well with a stop screw to keep the grand total to 34-36* ?
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:59 AM
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Wouldn't it be cool to have a knock sensor rigged up to a buzzer or a light in the dash and use one of those dashboard knob adjustable ignitions they sell? I adjust my ignition advance almost completely manual super old school with a mower cable(a 20$ one, pretty nice) and that works well for me. I just discoed the vacuum alltogether and rely on the mech advance and fine tune with the cable when the motor is cold or I am on the expressway, mostly by feel and but partly with the vacuum gauge I have. I am lucky and inherited a really nice old Stewart Warner vacuum gauge that I use. You can't really always hear it pinging going down the road, thats where the knock sensor would be awesome. I have read that a little pinging is harmless and is to be expected but I don't like it at all. I however don't know for sure if a knock sensor would maybe pick up the lifter clack as a knock with solids or not tho so...

Ericnova72 told me (and I believe him) that "Even the best $700-up solid roller lifters with oil pressure fed needles have a hard time making 5000 miles. People who use solid roller lifters on the street put them on a regular change-out schedule just like spark plugs, oil, and valvesprings." So I guess just be careful and don't let those things come apart and wreck your motor or at the least seize and ruin the cam if you plan on ever putting very many miles on her. I myself drive alot and 5000 miles is not very much for me, maybe 2 monthes or so worth. It's not like I could afford a set of 800$ oil fed solid lifters anyways with babies and baby mommas and diapers and gas clothes shoes etc to buy. My .02

Last edited by Dirty Biker; 09-20-2010 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:04 AM
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Oh and friggin' sweet car you have!!! Geez!!
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landshark928
Gotcha. I think.

My HEI has a crane adjustable vacuum cannister. So i set the lock out cam to limit travel of the cannister to say 12*, the lowest setting it will go, then come out about 9 turns on the cannister for it to start coming in at about 800rpms. Then I change springs on the weights until I'm all in by 3000 rpms at 47* total advance?

14* initial + 12* vacuum advance + 21* mechanical in by 3000rpms = 47* total?

Or are you saying I need to also limit the total mechanical advance as well with a stop screw to keep the grand total to 34-36* ?
You have a pretty good handle on what is needed.

The 14 initial and 21 mechanical puts you at 35 total, which is a good total, but the engine will likely prefer the initial to be in 20-26 area, which means you will need to limit the travel of the mechanical advance to stay below 38 total. You'll need a stop screw or a similar method to achieve this. Then add the 12-16 vacuum advance at cruise to end up at 48-52 combined total, for gas mileage and cooler engine temps at cruise.
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