Matching Numbers Question - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2003, 01:44 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 68
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post Matching Numbers Question

Is there any possibility that a "numbers matching" car doesn't have the original engine? I had always heard that blocks were stamped as a group so its possible to have two cars roll of the line with the same number block, but because there are just fewer numbers they'll still match both VINs. Recently someone said that each block is specific and no two block numbers are identical? So what's the deal, or does it vary by manufacturer? Thanks.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2003, 01:58 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 80
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

Hey man,

Usually the drivetrain will be correct, unless the engine is a service replacement after the old one got grenaded. As far as I know, if it is numbers matching, it will be correct. <img src="graemlins/pimp.gif" border="0" alt="[pimp]" />
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2003, 03:47 PM
woodz428's Avatar
Troll Hunter
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Philo,Il
Posts: 2,702
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Arrow

On Fords the block and trans #'s are the numerical part of the serial # so it would be hard to have two engines with the same #'s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2003, 04:24 PM
Member
 

Last journal entry: JB's 37 Pickup
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Smoky Mountains
Age: 76
Posts: 2,358
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Post

There are different numbers on GM engines. The casting numbers which are cast into the blocks and stamped numbers that are added when the engine is assembled. The casting numbers identify the block and the casting date. Obviously several blocks will be cast on a given day and all will have the same numbers if they are of the same family. The assembly date is stamped like this F0622D on the machined ledge in the front of the block on Passenger side. The F is for Flint plant, 06 is June 22 is 22 day, D is a code the indicates what type of vehicle this motor was installed (in this case, the block casting fixed the year as 1961 and D code that year was a full sized Chevorlet body with a 283/170 hp motor and Power Glide tranny) A portion of the Vin number was added on many later blocks. After all this, you can see it is possible to have several cars with the "matching engine numbers" but not have the origional engine. For example, a good friend of mine has a 100 point 57 Chevy, but does not have the origional engine, however the engine casting numbers and date code are correct for his vin number etc. He looked long and hard to find the right block!! To find a true numbers matching engine and vehicle, you must look for more information on trim tags, VIN plates and "hidden VINS" and casting numbers, codes and dates that are found on other major powertrain components and vehicle frames.

Trees
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2003, 04:46 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: waterloo ia
Posts: 152
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

Heres a touchy subject...Numbers matching. First off i gotta say, unless you have documented proof or the original protect-o-plate the numbers matching thing dosent matter at all. I could tell you that i have a numbers matching Chevelle and you couldnt tell if i put the same 375hp 396 motor of the same year in 10 years ago. Ill be willing to bet that 85% of the real muscle cars {the ones worth alot of money} are the wrong engine because in the 1960/1970's everyone who had a GTO,SS Chevelle,Buick GS, olds 442, Nova, Hemi etc had it for 1 reason... to race, and i bet ya alot of them beat the hell out of the motor and probably blew one out when they were racing because they had warranty's on those motors {wouldnt that be nice now} So all im going to tell you is unless somone has documented proof that its the original engine it dont mean squat,because in this day in age people lie.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2003, 07:45 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 416
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Post

All of the muscle car era GM cars should have the last few digits of the Vin stamped onto the front pad of the block,along with some other coded informantion that you can use books to uncover.A true numbers match car will have correct "cast in" date codes to match the production date of the car.Major engine parts should all have date codes that are within a few months before the build date of the body of the car,never later then the build date.You can learn a lot from reading the trim tag of many GM cars.You cant find out which SS camaros had bigblocks in them,but if you know the paint code for a blacked out tailpanel you can tell if the bigblock car you have is the real deal{since all bigblock camaros had blacked out tailpanels}.Also,if you were looking at a 1971 camaro that was supposed to be an SS396,and it had manual brakes,you would know it was bogus since all SS cars had power brakes in that year,and you could only get a bigblock in an SS,so no matter how dishonest a restamper could be,he couldnt fake something like that.
There are many numbers that can make up a true "all numbers car"in the case of a very rare big money muscle car,you should be looking at every part number including the carb,intake,distributor and transmission stamping numbers as well as the engine and cylinder head casting numbers and dates,and the date codes on the engine,transmission and rear axle.
There are some very well restored cars out there that have lots of correct parts on them that didnt actually leave the assembly line on the car they are now on.There are also some under a tarp cars such as the 68 camaro SS I found a few years ago with 425 original miles on the clock,and the dealer papers,this particualr car was never titled,it just logged a few dragstrip miles up until 1971 when it was loaded into the loft of a local garage and left untouched for over 30 years.That is becoming more common as people now know how much some of these cars are worth.I know that there are hundreds of never driven 1989 Indy Pace Car Trans Ams{one of my favorite late model collector cars}around right now,and I know of 2 people who bough the last year SLP optioned F bodies and never let the tires touch the ground,one camaro with all the SLP stuff and one trans am convertable with the same treatment were loaded off of flatbeds into climate controlled garages in my nieghborhood,so this suff is getting more common.
How much a true numbers car is worth is still dependent on what it is.A 66 chevelle that started life as a 6 banger and was kept in like new condition is still worth more if it was made into a bogus 396SS buy adding the trim package and a non matching drivetrain then the 6 banger would be worth,but a real SS 396 chevelle body with a 1975 pickuptruck 454,or even a mighty LS6 or 502 crate motor in it isnt going to demand the price of a car with the correct 396/375 hp numbers matching motor either.It is all relitive,and sometimes it is up to the buyer to decide how important it is.Good luck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.