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Old 11-05-2008, 02:07 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Max torque!

What are some ideas for obtaining the maximum amount of torque below 4500 RPM in a sbc? My displacement will be limited to 385. I'm looking at running Vortec heads with a Holley stealth ram intake combo. Cam choice I'm open on, but I'm thinking it'll probably have to be a solid (roller or flat). It's going in a 92 Camaro RS which will for the most part be my daily driver. I'll be running 1.65 roller rockers, gapless rings, flat top pistons, long tube headers.

I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on this but I would like to hit close to 500 ftlb naturally aspirated. I want my hp peak to be below 5500 if possible as well.

I know how to build high revving huge HP machines, but this one is a little different.

BTW, this is replacing the build of the 350 for my s-10 (hence I have the block, rods, heads, valvetrain, etc). I was convinced this would be a much better car to build a go fast engine for, and I figured after I swap the 4.10's and the 3.4L in the s10 it'll be adequate for what I use it for.

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Old 11-05-2008, 02:26 PM
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Less camshaft duration thus less overlap. Smaller runners on intake, tune your exhaust to lower RPM (tri Y headers were good for this), dual plane intake.

These are just a few vauge basic things.

Oh more cubes, cubes are always helpful for torque.

I have heard good and bad things about the stealth ram.

If you want low end torque that falls on its face in the high RPM the GM TPI setups were great for this, throw a new throttle body on it and some different runners or work the origional ones over yourself.

The stealth rams unlike the gm TPI do not have long tuned runners for lower RPM. Instead you have a pleneum like the TPI pretty much thrown on top of a bastardized tunnel ram.

TPIS and accell both have some good systems out there. Talk to people who have stealth rams and see what they say about the low RPM ability of them. I know they are good all around but I don't know where the power is put i just know that some guys like the TPIS and accell setups better.

Another thing is the vortecs may limit your options for what systems you can put on there. I know the stealth ram has vortec kits but I'm not sure about the other guys.
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:25 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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the engine I have in there is a TPI 350, so the TPI part would be easy to find. My fear is that it will not flow enough to produce good torque numbers, I've never seen any produce more than 460 ftlbs. My heads have been ported with 2.02/1.6 valves and have a max lift of .600". I was hoping to find an intake and cam that can keep up with that yet still keep the milage of a TPI setup.
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:53 PM
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I was playin' around with the DynoSim on this 350 build....
rhs heads or phase 3 heads?
Swapping to 385 inches, 11.0:1, using Scoggin-Dickey flow figures for the Vortecs and puttin' in your big valves with the same 08-432-8 cam, here's what I got for torque....
2000 399
2500 404
3000 432
3500 468
4000 488
4500 490
5000 479
If you add 20 ft/lbs for roller rockers, you're at 510.
Swapped in several different cams, this one made the most torque.
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Old 11-05-2008, 04:17 PM
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Well I guess it depends on your budget. You have everything for the TPI setup except you may need bigger injectors and a few mods. You could always test it out and see how it performs. If it seems like it good but needs improvment you could try some aftermarket runners and bigger throttle body. If it doesn't seem to like it you could always go with one of the aftermarket kits.

Some guys love the aftermarket runners and some guys say they aren't really worth the money. I'm guessing the guys who don't like them aren't too impressed with the low top end and the other guys are happy with the good bottom end.

I really don't know what the max torque is guys run on TPI setups but a good search around the internet could give you an idea.

I'm just tryin to help find a good starting point without me telling you how to spend a bunch of your hard earned cash. It ain't cheap to make huge power but you can make damn good power without breaking the bank.
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:03 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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thanks tech for running the dyno sims. I appreciate it, but unfortunately it won't tell me which intake is the best. And I'd be affraid to run 11:1 on that short of a cam with Vortec heads and standard cooling. 10:1 is about it with that cam.

As far as the TPI goes, I may start with it, my biggest thing is that because its a daily driver I want to be able to get 20+ highway MPG, preferabley 25+. TO do that I'm looking at some kind of EFI system, more than likely a MPFI system like th eTPI or stealth ram setup. If it wasn't for that I'd just go with my previously planned circle track combo and light up the tires with 500+ hp. Since I can't do that I figured shooting for 500+ ftlb would be the next best thing.
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:23 PM
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If you shoot for and reach even a lower goal than your number, you`d best install subframe connectors. if the car has T tops make it sub frame connectors and a partial roll cage. Otherwise, you won`t get the passengers side T top back in if you take it out, and you`ll crack windshields on a regular basis. Been there, done that, got the T shirt.
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:40 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Oh, I know all of that, and will be sure to do that before I even think of swapping a new engine in. I'm even worried about it with a stock 350 TPI. It's going to have subframes and a cage. Its better for safety too. And when you can put a cage in for $300 and get the subframes for $200 there's no good reason to not do it.
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Old 11-06-2008, 01:05 AM
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Just be careful what you get for subframe connectors on there there are some that just look like junk. Could always fab up your own too probably cheaper and better if you know what you are doing.

The T top cars may twist under those forces but the hard top models just crack the roof welds. (acutally the t tops twisted under the force of approaches and **** and the hard top models made dips in the welds under normal use too)
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:28 PM
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If you retain the EFI and modify the runners and plenum to get a little more on the top end, you won't give up a lot of torque down low. You can't think of it like intake tuning with a carb.

Carbed engines carry suspended fuel the entire length of the intake runners/plenum. Fuel suspension, mass of the flow, and puddling are all big factors. With a port efi intake, that is less of a consideration. Still important, but its not at all like the difference between a performer and an RPM intake with a carb. An EFI intake carries just air, so runner length/size and plenum volume are less of a concern.

The LT1 has a very large plenum and super short runners, and it affects torque very little. Swapping to a dual plane intake and carb doesn't boost the torque numbers at all.

What I'm saying is that you can mod the TPI parts to get better flow without affecting torque much at all.
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