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Old 03-12-2013, 07:32 PM
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Maybe someone here can help

I'm pretty new here and I'm in the process of firing up my 40 Ford pickup. It has a 4.3 TBI and the TBI wiring is from Painless Performance. The engine runs but poorly. It is running very rich, it'll make your eyes water. The first problem I encountered was that the fuel pressure was way off (20PSI). I modified the fuel pressure regulator in the TBI and presently the pressure runs 11-12 PSI. This made the engine run better, before this it was impossible to get it to run with both injectors connected because of all the gasoline being admitted.

It seems the typical suspects are the CTS and the MAP sensor. Both are new and are the part number that Painless specified. The Computer is the part number that they specify as well but the Prom and Cal-pack are not (I neglected to check this when I was stock piling parts.) The guys at Painless didn't think this would cause the problem I'm seeing but wouldn't say for sure.

Does anyone here have any TBI experience?I would love to get some suggestions as to what to look for next.

BTW, the truck is a 1940 Ford pickup on an 86 Ranger chassis, wheelbase stretched to 112", 4,3 Chevy V6, TBI, 2" full dual exhaust with Flowmaster 40 series mufflers, 700R4 trans, 3.45:1 Ranger rear end.
The truck has PS, PW, AC/Heat/Defrost, electric door locks, tilt, cruise, AM/FM/CD HD radio, 200 watt amp and an 8" sub.

The cab is from US Bodysource, the bed is from Northern Classic trucks, the fenders are Wescotts and the doors, hood, running boards, grille, chin panel, and headlight buckets are original.

I did all the fabricating, assembly and bodywork myself. I had the final BC/CC applied at a friends shop. It's Meadowmist Green, a 56 Ford color. The truck is nearly finished except for some interior work and this injection problem. I'm hoping to hit the cruise nights starting this spring If it will run!

Thanks for reading!

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Old 03-12-2013, 08:28 PM
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What is the idle doing? A little more explanation on what's going on with the RPM, and engine vacuum will help out a lot.
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Old 03-12-2013, 09:14 PM
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YEARS AGO, i was given a 65 olds, and a 91 chevy 1500.
i swapped the 4.3 into the 65, and tried to do exactly what you are doing, but i had a stock harness.
i spent months tryin to get it running.
i ended up finding a marine cast iron 4 bbl intake.
and a HEI from summit,
had it running the next day.
even had time to slap a set of headers together!
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:39 PM
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What yr 4.3 and is there any mods done to it??. I am thinking it would be previous to 1994.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1great40 View Post
I'm pretty new here and I'm in the process of firing up my 40 Ford pickup. It has a 4.3 TBI and the TBI wiring is from Painless Performance. The engine runs but poorly. It is running very rich, it'll make your eyes water. The first problem I encountered was that the fuel pressure was way off (20PSI). I modified the fuel pressure regulator in the TBI and presently the pressure runs 11-12 PSI. This made the engine run better, before this it was impossible to get it to run with both injectors connected because of all the gasoline being admitted.

It seems the typical suspects are the CTS and the MAP sensor. Both are new and are the part number that Painless specified. The Computer is the part number that they specify as well but the Prom and Cal-pack are not (I neglected to check this when I was stock piling parts.) The guys at Painless didn't think this would cause the problem I'm seeing but wouldn't say for sure.

Does anyone here have any TBI experience?I would love to get some suggestions as to what to look for next.

BTW, the truck is a 1940 Ford pickup on an 86 Ranger chassis, wheelbase stretched to 112", 4,3 Chevy V6, TBI, 2" full dual exhaust with Flowmaster 40 series mufflers, 700R4 trans, 3.45:1 Ranger rear end.
The truck has PS, PW, AC/Heat/Defrost, electric door locks, tilt, cruise, AM/FM/CD HD radio, 200 watt amp and an 8" sub.

The cab is from US Bodysource, the bed is from Northern Classic trucks, the fenders are Wescotts and the doors, hood, running boards, grille, chin panel, and headlight buckets are original.

I did all the fabricating, assembly and bodywork myself. I had the final BC/CC applied at a friends shop. It's Meadowmist Green, a 56 Ford color. The truck is nearly finished except for some interior work and this injection problem. I'm hoping to hit the cruise nights starting this spring If it will run!

Thanks for reading!
This guy should be #1 on the w
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:47 AM
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my KARMA ran over my DOGMA
 

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whoops,,, completely crapped the bed there, carry on camping lads
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1great40 View Post
I'm pretty new here and I'm in the process of firing up my 40 Ford pickup. It has a 4.3 TBI and the TBI wiring is from Painless Performance. The engine runs but poorly. It is running very rich, it'll make your eyes water. The first problem I encountered was that the fuel pressure was way off (20PSI). I modified the fuel pressure regulator in the TBI and presently the pressure runs 11-12 PSI. This made the engine run better, before this it was impossible to get it to run with both injectors connected because of all the gasoline being admitted.

It seems the typical suspects are the CTS and the MAP sensor. Both are new and are the part number that Painless specified. The Computer is the part number that they specify as well but the Prom and Cal-pack are not (I neglected to check this when I was stock piling parts.) The guys at Painless didn't think this would cause the problem I'm seeing but wouldn't say for sure.

Does anyone here have any TBI experience?I would love to get some suggestions as to what to look for next.

BTW, the truck is a 1940 Ford pickup on an 86 Ranger chassis, wheelbase stretched to 112", 4,3 Chevy V6, TBI, 2" full dual exhaust with Flowmaster 40 series mufflers, 700R4 trans, 3.45:1 Ranger rear end.
The truck has PS, PW, AC/Heat/Defrost, electric door locks, tilt, cruise, AM/FM/CD HD radio, 200 watt amp and an 8" sub.

The cab is from US Bodysource, the bed is from Northern Classic trucks, the fenders are Wescotts and the doors, hood, running boards, grille, chin panel, and headlight buckets are original.

I did all the fabricating, assembly and bodywork myself. I had the final BC/CC applied at a friends shop. It's Meadowmist Green, a 56 Ford color. The truck is nearly finished except for some interior work and this injection problem. I'm hoping to hit the cruise nights starting this spring If it will run!

Thanks for reading!
The PROM and the CALPAC are the brains of the PCM, if these aren't right for the engine the part number of the PCM is usless to you without the correct or a corrected PROM and CALPAC. It's the programming that counts not necessarily the part number which is to say that in the world outside of the OEM's factory the chips and pacs can be changed around without affecting the computers part number. So if the chips and CALPAC are not with the program that the OEM put into the PCM's part number that PCM will no longer function in the way the part number on the case would define.

Bogie
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Old 03-13-2013, 02:21 PM
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Get ahold of these folks.They know what they are doing with this stuff.

TBI CHIPS CAR MODS
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:29 PM
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Thanks for responding. The idle is very lumpy. It's not unlike an engine with a vary radical cam. Very lopey. I have set the idle speed according to the instructions in the Painless manual and my guess is that it's at about 750 RPM and the engine is producing 12 inches of vacuum with occasional, momentary drops to 10 inches. You can see fuel streaming in from both injectors. I am going to try to see if the CTS is operating correctly. I measured its resistance once when the block was warm and I got a resistance that equaled about 150 degrees, What I need to check now is the reference voltage for the sensor and double check ground. I hope this information helps you to understand the problem a little better.

Thanks
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:42 PM
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1great40,
Do you have a scanner? I'm not saying that any of the previous replies are incorrect! I was going to make an alternate suggestion that you might want to consider if you don't have any luck with the computer PROM and the CALPAC.
I have a 4.3L in a 2000 Silverado that I can monitor the sensors and note their values at idle and paste them here, so that you might get an idea what a normal reading is and see if something is way off. Someone else on the forum had a problem and using a scanner found out that a new throttle position sensor had a higher reading than it should, swapped it, and now everythings ok.
I'm not saying that your readings will be the same as mine. Just that it may give you some ballpark idea of what to expect for a normal reading. I've got a multi port system that uses 55-60psi fuel pressure, but most of the sensors should be somewhat close unless I'm mistaken. I would guess that a TPS or MAP sensor would have very similar readsings at idle. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken.
Let me know if you have a scanner and want the readings. I would have to write them down after it warmed up I believe, so it would be sometime tomorrow before I could do it as I'm done for the day. Come to think of it, you can probably get them off the internet. duh
FWIW,
ssmonty
PS I guess I should have mentioned that my scanner can display live data(actron CP9575). Not top of the line but not the cheapest either.

Last edited by ssmonty; 03-13-2013 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:00 PM
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Could be something wired incorrectly causing it to go rich.
It could also be a serious fuel leak at or in the throttle body.
The fuel regulator leak into the intake and I have seen several throttle bodys that were pourous or cracked and spilling fuel.
Most important, youneed to scan the system and retrieve any HARD codes stored.
You cannot set the Idle/perform minimum air rate adjustment until you have the rich problem figured out and get it running half way decent.
Scan the data, look for codes. I have lifted throttle bodys off the engine with the fuel lines hooked up, and cycled the key/(run the fuel pump) to watch for fuel dripping.
Reference voltage is 5 volts on that system give or take a few tenths of a volt.
There are also different injectors and throttle bodys for the TBI system. Be sure you have the correct one for your application.
I highly doubt the ECM or prom is the issue as long as the numbers are correct for the 4.3.
Years ago I shoveled a 350 into an astro that had the 4.3 computer in it. It ran fine.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:50 PM
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I only have a very basic OBD1 Code reader, the CEL is off and last time I checked, there were no stored codes. When I force it into diagnostics, I jut get the code 12 flashed 3 times and nothing after that. Also If I look for codes with the code reader, there aren't any. My guess is that between the richness and the amount of time the engine is left to run, I haven't gone closed loop at all because I'm pretty sure the o2 sensor is all crudded up by now and the would certainly throw a code.

As far as leaks, I can't see any, have had the fuel pressure regulator apart to modify the spring to get my fuel pressure down to spec, so i know it's not leaking there and the gaskets in the throttle body are new. If you watch the injector spray, it's more like tropical downpour and the gas is puddling on top of the throttle plates so I'm kinda leaning in the direction that the injectors are being driven incorrectly and all the gas is coming through the injectors.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:59 PM
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I would check your throttle position sensor voltage, with the engine off and in the position it is currently in. I just had an issue with my 350 tbi system running very rich, and it turns out the tps was at 1.45 volts which is equivalent to revving the engine to roughly 2000 rpm, and without that air flow to back it up, it ran like crap. Adjusted it to where it needed to, and it runs like a dream now. I believe your set up should be at 0.55 volts. And the injectors should be a fine mist at that, nothing to crazy.
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Old 03-13-2013, 08:24 PM
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I probed the black and blue wires at the TPS and it's just under .9 volts, so according to your information, that's high. My instruction manual from Painless says to set the TPS for .55 volts for a TPI system and makes no mention of setting it for a TBI system. Since my engine runs like crap and I know where the voltage is now, I see no harm in shooting for .55 volts and cranking it up. I'll get back to you.
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Old 03-13-2013, 09:43 PM
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In order to get the voltage to .55v. I had to drag the holes in the TPS and one of the stainless screws that hold the TPS galled and snapped off. (I've been in bigger trouble than this before). Anyway, I fired it up and it runs about the same although faster and the vacuum is at about 15 inches now. The fuel is still pissin out like crazy. I'm calling it a night. thanks guys!
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