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Old 02-05-2010, 02:07 PM
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Measuring piston retaining ring groove.

Can anyone suggest a method for measuring the ring groove diameter and width? I want to replace the wire ring supplied with the pistons with a spirolox, but I can't get a mic or calipers inside the pin hole for dimensions.
Thanks for any and all replies!
ssmonty
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmonty
Can anyone suggest a method for measuring the ring groove diameter and width? I want to replace the wire ring supplied with the pistons with a spirolox, but I can't get a mic or calipers inside the pin hole for dimensions.
Thanks for any and all replies!
ssmonty
You need some pretty specialized tools to measure those things.
What kind of pistons are they?
Are you looking for spiralox or internal snap rings?
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:51 PM
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They are Speed Pro pistons PN 8-H124CL.30. They are hyper, 2 valve relief, 1/16" ring flat tops for a six inch rod Chevy 383 stroker. Bought them from Summit a while few years ago. I think I would rather have spirolox if I can get them in the correct size, if not I could use a snap ring. I just don't care for the wire ring that was supplied.
ssmonty
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmonty
They are Speed Pro pistons PN 8-H124CL.30. They are hyper, 2 valve relief, 1/16" ring flat tops for a six inch rod Chevy 383 stroker. Bought them from Summit a while few years ago. I think I would rather have spirolox if I can get them in the correct size, if not I could use a snap ring. I just don't care for the wire ring that was supplied.
ssmonty
Hopefully I won't get in trouble for posting this, as I'm not affiliated with them in any way, but here goes:
http://www.competitionproducts.com/H...tinfo/927-042/
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:19 PM
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deleted for slow typing! sorry.
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Old 02-05-2010, 05:01 PM
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Thanks for replying!
I've been doing a lot of research on the net lately about retaining rings, and they seemed to be spec.ed to the .001" size groove. Those in the link are the 1st I remember seeing that had such a wide range. I'll look into those to see if I can find specs similar to most I've seen that list groove diameter and thickness, but first I have to find out what's the size of the grooves in my pistons.
I can't be certain, bit it looks like they are machined with a square cut, good enough for spiralox or snap ring.
In desperation to measure the grooves, I'm thinking of finding some wire thick enough to bottom in the groove and protrude into the pin bore enough, so that I could lay it inside the groove all the way around the inside like a snap ring. Then measure the ID of the wire, add that to 2X wire dia., and have a close(+/-.001) number for groove dia.? Any thoughts?
ssmonty
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:47 PM
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You can't just start mixing and matching this stuff without problems. The pistons are machined with a radius groove to match the round wire retainers, you can't just go throwing a tru-arc ring or spirolox into that groove. The groove for spiro's or tru- arc snap rings are a square sided groove to match the profile of the snap ring or spirolox shape and won't seat properly in the round wire groove.

You will also find that the end of the piston pin is precisely chamfered to mate with the round wire lock, this chamfer serves to put the thrust forces into the round wire ring in such a way as to force them up and out making them tighter in their groove the more force is put to them.

Round wire locks are virtually fool proof and this is why more and more piston companies are using it. Speed-Pro, Mahle and others including the pistons used in F-1 use round wire locks. You need to get out of the past.

A note on installation of the round wire locks - DON"T squeeze them with a pair of needle nose pliers to install them, this will overstress them. Start one end into the groove and wind the rest in similar to installing spirolocs. Only use pliers to remove them, and toss them upon removal, like spiros they are one time use only.
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Old 02-06-2010, 07:41 AM
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Thank you very much ericnova!
I did not realize the manufacturers were using wire these days. This is the first set of pistons that I've bought in 25 years, and the first time I'd seen wire rings. Actually, its the first time I've tried full floating pins. The retainers just didn't seem to fit in the grooves very secure, like its not bottoming out in the groove, just resting on the corners, as if the wire was too thick.
I guess I'll try to find another set, as I did exactly what you said I shouldn't do with the needle nose. It was only one, but I put it in the bag with the rest after a trial installation. If I overstressed it I could probably measure them and the smallest would be the one to replace, but I doubt I could buy just one.
I've put allot of time and effort to make this build as reliable as I can.
You could have very well have saved me a bunch of bills on a ruined engine!
I wish I could shake your hand! Thanks again!
ssmonty
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Old 02-07-2010, 12:26 AM
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A Speed-Pro dealer should be able to set you right up as these are a service item.
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