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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2012, 08:20 PM
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Just read thread Ignition timing oddity on chassis dyno and what that person is experiencing is basically the same thing I am.

I will follow F-Bird'88's suggestions noted in that thread and put a mechanical limiter in place; looks like MSD does not sell anything like that so I will fabricate something and adjust until it stops at 36.

Gary

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Old 09-09-2012, 01:06 AM
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Thanks F-Bird'88, I saw that picture lots of times and that's the one I will use as a guide. Seems odd that MSD does not yet make a kit to use for this but so be it.
Also, the other thread talks about the potential of having a bad distributor in this scenario; any thought on that. Why is the timing range so large ?? seems like it should have stopped at a number around the 40's....

I put a message into the MSD support forum asking them for input on what the total range is of their distributor.

Gary
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Old 09-09-2012, 06:36 AM
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Mechanical Advance

Here is the instructions on the MSD 8362. Go to page 16 and read the instructions for locking out centrifugal advance. On page 17 it has info on limiting the vacuum advance. MSD IGNITION Wiring Diagrams and Tech Notes
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Old 09-09-2012, 01:39 PM
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Stop advance bushing

Ok Thanks cdminter59.
Looks like the MSD streetfire distributor I have (pn 8362) does not allow for the MSD advance stop bushing as it has no locknut/post on the bottom of the advance assembly as noted in the instructions you sent. I attached a pic showing where that post should have been.

I'll talk to MSD tommorow to confirm. I could go the way that F-Bird'88 indicated but I have a friend that has an application where he could use the distributor I have so I'm going to call my parts supplier to find out how much the MSD Pro-Billet 8365 is and I may go that direction. That unit will allow me to control both the mechanical advance with a stop and also has an adjustable vacuum advance (the stock 8362 does not).

Cheers
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Old 09-09-2012, 05:30 PM
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Mechanical Advance

Do you have a MSD box or just use the Streetfire as a stand alone distributor? If you had a box I would buy this Crane Distributor. http://www.cranecams.com/userfiles/file/408.pdf. I have two MSD Pro-Billet 85561. One brand new. The other has been rebuilt, new shaft, weights, springs, pick-up, Chevy style cap and rotor. I would sell both of mine to have that Crane.
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Old 09-09-2012, 09:00 PM
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Mechanical Advance

Hello,

F-Bird'88, you are correct, budgets must be maintained!! I'll look into contuing with my unit and using your your picture and notes to fabricate a stop.
Is there a particular machine screw size/type you go with that I could start with? Or am I looking at putting it in, testing, then shaving it down some, testing, shave some more, test, etc. etc.

The VAC advance on my unit is NOT adjustable. I guess it used to be (based on the 2 different user guides for 8362 I found out there) and when I called MSD they indicated that, Yes, they changed their street-fire "value brand" to no longer have an adjustable can but they do include the vacuum advance stop plate. (see attached picture).
The MSD tech also indicated that the vacuum advance can with this unit will go all the way up to 22 degrees advance. It kicks in at 5 hg and goes up linearly, based on Hg, to the max of 22 degrees. The stop plate willl stop it at that range listed for the letter selected.
When I pull the distributor out I will also be installing that stop plate and I am going to set it at the B (11-14 degrees stop) so as not to exceed 15.

Also, I read a bit up on Phasing alignment but did not think it would matter to me as I have a brand new distributor so everything should be smooth and work great. Is there some sort of test I can do to ensure there is no phasing problems?

cdminter59, no box, just the streetfire GM HEI with incorporated coil.

Cheers
Gary
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:52 PM
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It is important to know how to do it yourself so you understand. F bird knows much and helps out with maximum verbosity. He deserves much thanks.

You can just throw money at it. For $70 4secondsflat.com will set up a distributor to any curve you want on the advance machine. Don, used to be very reasonable and fast return. Not to mention dead on accurate. Have not contacted them in over 10 years, but the site is still up.

There used to be tons of distributor shops that put the dizzy on the spin and suck machine. Now a days they are harder to find. Damn computers ruined everything except adult entertainment.
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Old 09-22-2012, 11:03 PM
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Almost there

Ok, Almost there but still an issue.

Installed the mechanical limiting screw in my MSD Streetfire pn 8362 and confirmed mechanical advance now limited at 36 degrees. Confirmed it by taking the springs out and going up to 4000 rpm. Stayed at 36 degrees all the way up there.

However, after that I tried a number of different advance rate springs out (2 blues, 1 heavy and 1 light, 2 silvers) and all of them cause the advance to stop at 32 degrees all the way to 4500 rpm. (did not go higher than that). What gives?

Idle timing continues to be set at 18 degrees. (vacuum advance disconnected and plugged)

Do I adjust the distributor to bring it to 36 degrees? Would that not raise the idle timing to above 20?

Since without the springs it goes to 36 and with it doesn't the problem has to be in the springs I think; I'm just not sure how to resolve this. I want 18 degrees of mechanical advance on top of my initial advance.

So, on my thought of this being springs related; I used the springs from the Pro-Billet advance kit (the store had that in stock and not the one for my distributor so I took it thinking springs are springs) so I'm thinking that maybe those springs are not designed to work with my distributor and cannot stretch far enough. The pro billet advance chart shows them going much higher than what I need but maybe that is specific to the pro-billet and, on my distributor, they can't stretch that far so are limited to 14 degrees?

thoughts?

Thanks
Gary

Last edited by ggevaert; 09-22-2012 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:25 PM
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Springs

Thanks F-BIRD'88, I have already ordered MSD PN 8248 (the proper spring advance set for my distributor) which should be in tuesday and I'm also going to look into the mrgasket one you noted. I also found a moroso HEI spring set sitting around and tried it as well but still got stuck at the 32 degree mark. (although those springs were tiny compared to the pro-billet ones)

A couple of questions:
1. These kits come with weights, are these supposed to replace the weights in the distributor to work in conjunction with the springs included in the kit or are they only there in case you need new weights because the current ones are old/worn? I have a brand new MSD so the weights are working smoothly so I thought I would not need to change.

2. Can you elaborate on what you mean with
Quote:
"Check the free length when the spring is at rest. Check the weights for free movement"
.
I think I know what you mean with the first one; Some of the springs I did note were really tiny and I had to open them quite a bit to put them on so I can see them being limited. As for the weights; they are snug and not moving when I jiggle them at rest; they move smoothly out and snap right back. With 'free movement' do you mean they should not move (i.e. slop in them) when at rest or do you mean they move easily out and back?

Thank You!
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:58 AM
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When I run the distributor without springs and with the stop screw installed (36 degree stop) it goes to 36 degrees but then starts to go backwards when I get above 3000; not an issue, just wondering why it does that? I went to 4500 and it went all the way back to 30 degrees on the timing tape. Interesting.
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:40 PM
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Try a different timing light, one without a dial back function. MSD ignitions have been know to mess with lights, especially if its a dial back type.
Good luck,
ssmonty
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:03 PM
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timing light

Thanks ssmonty,

I'll pull my old light out of semi-retirement and check it out. it has no dialback feature on it.

I actually went out and bought a brand new OTC 3367 last weekend because of the concern with MSD (and I needed one that would work with an MSD ignition box for my impala restoration).

I'll update when I compare the two readings tonight.
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Old 09-29-2012, 10:29 AM
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Stumped

Ok, I'm officially stumped and need some assistance. I'm using the MSD HEI advance medium springs. Initial is set at 17 degrees

1. with no springs and the stop advance screw in it stops at 36 degrees perfectly all the way up
2. With medium springs an NO stop advance screw I get 42 degrees at 4500
3. with medium springs and a stop advance is stops at 31 degrees all the way up.

huh? if the springs by themselves go over 36 and the stop stops it at 36 would that not have it stop at 36? I just don't get it.

I have played with over 3 different companies springs (Morose, MSD pro billet springs, MSD HEI springs and I have a mr gasket HEI kit on order). I have played with light all the way to heavy and numerous combinations of lights, mediums).

I made another screw and shaved it down to stop at 40; testing with springs showed it to stop, yup you guessed it, at 31.

I'm not sure where to look next. Any thoughts are appreciated.

I used a screw as the picture that F-Bird'88 sent, maybe another approach is needed? what are the alternatives (short of buying the pro-billet one with the built-in stop)

BTW, confirmed timing with another timing gun, a non-dial back light.

Thanks for any help
Gary
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2012, 07:12 PM
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Just my two cents,
Your distributor looks just like the MSD HEI Streetfire that I have laying around. I had issues with the advance mechanism not being as smooth as I thought it should be in certain positions. With no spring yours may let one weight get out in front of the other and bind(see pic,near thumb). I had to grind the end of one weight to keep it from catching. It may never have got to that position in normal use with springs. I'm just too picky(anal).
I swapped the weights out with a MSD Advance Kit PN 8428 and it seemed to be smoother.
However, I bought a MSD rev limiter module that was advertised to fit Stock and aftermarket HEI's, but low and behold it wouldn't fit in the streetfire????
I made a mod to it to get it to fit, but was still disapointed.
I decided to use an older MSD 8365 Pro Billet I had on another engine instead.
Something sure doesn't make sense with your timing being more advanced with springs vrs none. You sure the harmonic balancer outer ring isn't moving around on the hub(doubt it on a new engine)? Brush a thin line of paint across the two(from center outward) to be certain. You'll alwas know in the future if it has if the lines aren't straight.
I suspect the weights aren't as smooth as they should be, but thats just me. Might try the kit I mentioned.
Good Luck!
ssmonty
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:33 PM
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Sorry, I forgot to mention that I had to trim the bushings to get them to fit under the e-clips that hold the weights in place with the advance kit.
ssmonty
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