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Old 07-24-2004, 10:19 AM
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Metal Finishing, let's talk about it.

Let’s talk about metal finishing

I thought a good discussion on metal finishing was needed. Being one of our regular visitors is doing the kind of work that most of us only dream of doing I figured we can pick his brain. I am hoping Randy will jump in soon and explain some of his techniques in the art of repairing metal car and truck bodies with no plastic body filler.
I was lucky enough to get the basics many years ago from a master car restoration guru and I will pass on what I know. It is only scratching the surface though. Others who know the craft will need to speak up with detailed explanations. This is obviously best taught one on one with tools in hand. But I feel we can all learn something in this thread, if nothing else will eliminate the mystery of the subject.

Let me start with the basic idea. “Metal finishing” is “massaging” the damage metal back into shape where there is no need for body filler of any kind prior to primer and painting. One of the biggest misconceptions on this procedure is that you push the damaged area up evenly and it is done. In creating new panels from scratch this is especially true. Until the final “Planishing” (smoothing the metal with hammer and dolly) or pass of the vexon file, it may not look all that pretty. It is not magic, you don’t push the whole area up and it is smooth. You push it up a little at a time. You get little pieces of it up level, check with tools how level it is, and then push up another little area.

You will do final leveling with anything from a DA set on grinder mode with up to 2000 grit paper (if you were straightening something that will be polished or chromed) or a grinder with 80 grit if you are working on a bumper made of 1/8” thick metal. On the little ding we will be talking about, a DA with 180 on it is the tool to finish with. At least in my technique.

Returning back to misconception I mentioned earlier, the repair of the damaged area is a gradual one. Checking over and over and over after pushing on one low spot after another. I was taught to do this with a vexon file or sandpaper on a block. Just looking close at the metal to see what has been hit and what hasn’t by the file or sand paper as it is ran over the metal. Understand, this is really no different than what you do with guide coat on primer. You block it and where the guide coat remains, you know those spots are low. Of course there could be a spot too high that is keeping the block from hitting the low spot as well. If you take a few strokes with the file or paper and WHAM there is a spot getting hit hard, it is likely it is high and must be brought down or you will file right thru it.

Ok, let’s start with a simple door ding the size of a dime. Strip the paint a good ways around the ding, as much as eight or ten inches is recommended. You need a good flat surface to run the file on. The thickness of the paint will give you trouble so remove it. Now, I was taught on these little dings to use an “awl” (a screwdriver like tool with a pointed end) to push it up. Or for that matter, even on the larger stuff in final leveling. The awl gives you very a lot of control over where you push up. You can push up a tiny low spot the size of a BB with an awl without effecting the surrounding area. THIS IS KEY, you have this perfectly flat area that you have been working on. There is one last little low spot, you don’t want to *beep* up the hard work you have been doing, and you ONLY want to push up that tiny low spot. The awl let’s you do that without any fear of damaging anything else. You can push up, watching that area and because it SO localized you can watch it move up as you apply pressure.

So, to begin pushing the dent up you can use a ball peen hammer, pick hammer (as long as it isn’t too pointed) or even push up with the rounded end on the back of a *beep* driver handle. After you push it up you then run the file over it. If you can see that it hit the spot you just pushed up a lot, you may want to push it back down a little and try again. You want to get to the point where you push up the low spot JUST enough so that the file barely touches it. You do this over and over with all the low spots one at a time eliminating them.

When you are done pushing them up and the area looks like the file is hitting almost everywhere you can finish it off with a “grinder” of some sort. I am not saying take out your electric grinder with some 36 grit on it! I am talking something like I was taught, a DA in the “grinder mode” with the eccentric weight locked in where the disc doesn’t “orbit” but just spins. Using 120 or 180 paper you can “dress” the area to perfection. Use one side of the disc with it flat on the metal. Using the disc on the metal like that is almost like a grinder “Block”. It will level small imperfections but don’t expect it to do too much, it will cut the metal too thin as well.

I have used this procedure on thin stainless mouldings as well as bumpers with total success.

This is the basic idea to metal finishing. If it were a larger area you would simply have to spend more time leveling it. If there is stretched metal, well it has to be shrunk. The basic procedures to do so will cover a number more pages as this did. It will have to be left to other threads. One way to do it is with the shrinking disc (Sunchaser tools sells them). I have the complete system he sells and can tell you it does everything he says it does. Some of the claims sound pretty unbelievable, but I can assure you, it is THAT good. For instance, I did a Toyota quarter panel one time that was so stretched the metal had been folded over it’s self at the end of the quarter. It was a glancing blow that “ran” off the rear of the quarter. At that point the metal was very tightly folded over it’s self like a darn pinch weld. The damage was covering the whole area from the wheel well back, a number of square feet. Using the “friction system” from Sunchaser I was able to FLAWLESSLY metal finish it needing only a couple of coats of primer. And this was a 23 gauge Toyota!

Anyway, lets get Randy talking now with some other ideas on metal finishing a small ding.


The following are a couple of places where you can get vexon files and other tools for working sheet metal. I have done a lot of business with both of them and Ken (sunchaser) and Ron (Covell) are super standup gentlemen and I highly recommend the fine tools and equipment they offer. Kens videos on the friction system are really bad, they will teach you but he is no videographer that is for sure, they are mind numbing. However Rons videos are SUPER, I mean the highest quality and super informative. He also sells a couple of books that are the best I have ever seen on the subject. Ron and Sue Fourniers "Sheet metal handbook" and "Metal Fabricator's handbook/race and custom car" as well as Timothy Remus' "Advanced Sheetmetal Fabrication". I have seen a lot of wasted paper on "How to books" on painting and bodywork. Personally, I have never seen one that was worth the paper it was printed on. These three books are TOP KNOTCH, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THEM. Covells "Basic metal working" Video is a must have for anyone from beginer to advance who is interested in metal fab.



Covell Creative metalworking click here

SunChaser Tools click here
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Old 07-24-2004, 07:34 PM
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I think the best place to really discuss metal finishing in depth is at metalmeet.com. I feel most hotrodders are willing to slap some filler on their rod and be done with it.

While I'm not very experienced, I'm learning from probably one of the best metalshapers in the nation, Wray Schelin. I could be mistaken, but I don't think he uses a file in finishing, just as he does not use any picks that I have ever seen.

What does he use? A magic marker, a sanding block, slapper and dolly...sometimes a shrinking disk and a wet paper towel.

Basically he uses the magic marker like you would do with a guide-coat. Color the area you are finishing. The times I've seen him do it, he sticks to small areas. He then runs the block over the area, this shows all the highs and lows. He proceeds to work the area with the slapper and dolly, in the areas that are overly-stretched, he hits with the shrinking disk...this goes on for hours and hours until the area is finished.

I spent probably 5 hours helping him on an area he welded on a 35 Chrysler door...we only got about 1/3 through the door in that amount of time. The weld went across the door from left to right...just shows how time consuming this process is.
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Old 07-24-2004, 07:54 PM
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Unstable, this is exactly the dialog I was after. As far as this being the wrong place, maybe. I am thinking it sure wouldn't hurt to get someone interested in the idea here, over at metalmeet.com your preaching to the choir. Like I said, it we just remove the mystery from it, that would be nice. A lot of people just don't realize they could be doing this. Not everyone, I agree, but some.

Thanks for the imput and techniques. I use the friction disc about the same way. I didn't make it clear the difference between doing a larger area and a small area, thanks. I usually wouldn't do a really large area with the awl or pick to speak of either. A little here and there, but with the shrinking disc it really isn't needed.

Like I said, the disc is like a "heat block". It is only going to heat the high spot sticking up, you cool the area and you are only cooling the high spots, thus only shinking the high spots. If after shrinking you simply hit up the low spots which are easy to see being the disc didn't run over them, you then use the disc and then cool, again shrinking only the high spots. It really is a neat way to get the job done.

Randy uses the marker idea, I was hoping he would jump in and tell us about as well. I have never used it, but have used spray "Dycum" (sp?) with success. But I never got the hang of it sticking with just looking at the metal that the file has touched.
Thanks again, with your mentioning it as well as Randy, I have to give it another try.
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Old 07-24-2004, 08:01 PM
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well hell. i've beat on an old fender and beat on it some more, and have come to the conclusion, that i'm as good a metal shaper as i am an air brusher. suck city. looking at the fender Randy made, i make me sick. i can get to a semi suitable finish that would go great with a skim coat of filler, but not bare metal smooth. i've been using a couple of cheap hammers, a slapping spoon, and dollies..... haven't tried a shrinking disk yet. and was really looking forward to learning more on the use of one.

so, how do you get the bare metal smoothness with a hammer and dolly? is it possible to do so without grinding? as far as the grinder, i scare myself with the thought of grinding through the panel. wth, it's just an old pos fender.
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Old 07-25-2004, 01:34 AM
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OK, Here goes!
Unstable is no doubt working with the absolute best!! I envy him being so close to Wray. I have to rely on e-mail and phone calls, whereas he's only two hours away.

The best place for pick hammers is in the trash. I won't allow them in my shop!! There are far better ways to do the job. A slapper and dolly is the best approach.

I originally posted this back in March, but it had gotten buried. The search feature on these forums is excellent.

Hi Guys,
I had to repair a good sized area of a '34 Chrysler fender last night before proceeding with the replacement of some badly damaged metal. I prefer to repair all I can before a final decision is made of what to replace. There has been some discussion lately concerning shrinking discs. I wish I would have tried one years ago. It would have saved many headaches!!

This fender has had a hard life, but it can be saved. Some replacement is necessary, but most of the badly repaired metal is still decent enough to work with.

If you look closely, you will notice that the previous repairer use one of those metal mutilating shrinking hammers. WHAT A HOAX!!
He also used a course grit grinding disc to remove the paint and probably to remove some of the scaring from the hokey shrinking hammer. Still, it's not beyond repair.




To reveal the high and low areas, a large magic marker is used to ink the entire damaged area.



Rubbing over the surface with fine sandpaper on a block will reveal the highs immediately. As you can see, it's really bad in some spots with general waviness throughout. This particular area is all stretched and in need of excessive shrinking. I started by running the shrinking disc over it lightly a few times, followed by water quenching. In extreme cases, the metal will turn blue, but that should be avoided if possible. After the metal has started to shrink some, The slapper and dolly is used to further refine the surface. I place the dolly on the inside of the panel and lightly tap with the slapper on the outside. If you hit the dolly, it will ring. This will show you the placement of the dolly. You can then steer it to wherever you want it. I try to stay off the dolly, so I know I'm not stretching the metal further. Keep the dolly directly against the low spots and work around them with the slapper. The mass of the dolly will force the low spot to rise and the light blows from the slapper will knock down the highs. Once the panel feels smooth, The shrinking disc can be put to use again to smooth the area out even further. You only stay on the surface with the disc for a few seconds, then allow it to cool, either by water or air quenching. You can speed up the process if you decide to air quench by using compressed air to blow cool air across the surface. I use a squirt bottle to water quench. Less mess that way. A little bar soap on the disc will minimize galling of the metal. The disc should glide across the panel and not remove any material.



After several passes over it with the disc and lightly working the highs and lows with the slapper and dolly, here are the results. I have gone over it with fine grit sandpaper to polish it up a bit for the picture. This gives you a better look at the reflection from the lights. It's not 100% perfect yet, but it's good enough to begin the metal replacement.



I have right at 1 hour invested in this repair. I don't believe this could be fixed any faster with body filler.

Here is a picture of the finished fenders along with the grill shell that was badly twisted.



Randy Ferguson
Metalshaping & Kustom Paint
www.metalmeet.com
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Old 07-25-2004, 04:01 PM
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MARTINSR is correct, this is an excellent venue to discuss metal finishing. Many may not be aware of what a talented metal craftsman such as Randy can accomplish and as such limit their options regarding restoration or building a street rod.

Frankly, I had a vague awareness of what was possible with metal finishing but it was not until I had a need to repair the door skins on my '35 coupe did I start to learn what really is possible.

No, we all may not have the skill that Randy and his peers posess however we can learn, the long term quality of our projects can improve and maybe after hundreds of hours and years of practice our skills could be there as well.
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Old 07-25-2004, 10:08 PM
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Re-post of '34 Chrysler fender repairs

This is the first of a three part series on the repair of a set of '34 Chrysler fenders and grill shell.

The first picture is how the fender looked when I received it. Due to possible light collision, rust and botched previous repairs, it was time for some new material.




The owner happens to have a restored original car identical to this one, which is being street rodded. This area of the fender has to be perfect, as the fender irons and frame horns sandwich the fender. Both front fenders were bad, so we were forced to use the restored cars fenders to produce the patterns. The owner removed the front bumper and made me a plaster of paris mold off the original fender. I then use 1/4" hot roll rod, bent to conform closely to the surface of the mold. I then use a heavy paste furniture wax to insure that the buck will release upon completion.
Once I have the rods placed where I want them, I use 1/4" nuts to hold it off the surface of the mold. (The same can be done off the inside of an original part) I use fiberglass reinforced bondo to cover the rods and to achieve the true surface by making sure the filler has good surface contact where I need it. The voids left between the rods are to see how the metal sits on the buck. The area where you see the regular bondo is in an area that I thought may need to be hammerformed, but as it turns out, that was not necessary.



I failed to get a picture of the new panel resting on the buck, but here it is tack into place. I use a MIG welder to tack the two together. Note that this is butt welded, not lapped!



I then go in and weld a continuous bead between each spot weld, in 1" increments. If it looks like the panel is getting out of control due to warpage, I'll grind down the proud weld and crush it with a hammer and dolly. This will stretch the metal that has been shrunk from the welding process. You do not want to work outside of the heat affected zone, This is the blued area around the weld bead. Anything beyond the heat affected zone is not in need of further work. As the metal is stretched in the HAZ, it will relax and the distortion will disappear.



Once I have the welding done, I use a 1/16" disc in a cut-off saw to remove the proud weld, leaving it just above the surface by a few thousandths. I then crush the welds, relieving the shrinkage from the heat of the welding process. This also cold forges the weld seam, making for a stronger joint. If done properly, it will be as one piece of metal with no trace of being welded.
Once I'm satisfied with the results from the hammer and dolly treatment, I will further planish the panel using a slapper and dolly. The slapper has a much larger contact point, yielding a smoother, straighter finish. Any high areas of weld can now be taken care of and if it feels and looks straight, the shrinking disc can be run over the panel to further smooth out any slight imperfections. The slapper and shrinking disc are both in this shot. The slapper is one I made from an old car leaf spring, and the shrinking disc is a 9" diameter piece of 18ga. stainlees steel sheet with a 1/4" flange. It runs on a 6,000 rpm grinder and produces plenty of heat to controllably shrink sheet metal. The shrinking disc is available from John Kelly at ghiafab@msn.com



And, here's another shot of the near completed panel. I have yet to roll in the wire edge, but the bulk of the work is complete. This is one tough panel to shape. There isn't a straight part of it and much of it is what we refer to as reverse curves.



Randy Ferguson
Metalshaping & Kustom Paint
www.metalmeet.com

Last edited by Randy Ferguson; 07-25-2004 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 07-25-2004, 10:12 PM
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Outstanding workmanship Randy! Thans for taking the time to share with all of us. My previous post referenced a few years of practice being necessary to approach this level of workmanship however I should change that to maybe a few decades!
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Old 07-25-2004, 10:30 PM
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Hi Folks,
I posted a tutorial a few days ago on how to fabricate and install body replacement panels on a '34 Chrysler fender. In that post, I mentioned that the damage was so bad that I was not able to get enough information to make the part, but that the owner had an original car that was usable to make a plaster of paris mold to give me the surface information needed to make the part. This mold was taken off the right fender. When I spoke with the owner about doing this, I told him one side would suffice. So what to do now??? The left fender needs the same treatment, but I have no pattern for it!!!
Barry K asked me a while back if a pattern could made off an existing part, without damaging the paint. Although this one isn't painted, the process it the same. Tonight, I will show how to make a pattern off an existing shape. If you were to be involved in an accident, in which a body panel was so badly damaged it was beyond repair, and no parts were available, you might find this of interest. By having the mold from the right fender, transfering that to a wireform/bondo buck and making the part, I now have the information needed to make the panel for the left fender. This will probably be a two part post, as I haven't finished the panel yet, but plan to this week-end.
The right fender has the panel installed and has been metalfinished, meaning that there is no need for body filler. 2-3 coats of primer will take care of any minor imperfections. This will allow me to make a flexible shape pattern from it.
To make the pattern, start by laying strips of 1"-2" medium tack transfer tape on the area needing copied. (The transfer tape can be purchased from your local vinyl sign shop.) If you lay each succesive strip overlapping the previous one, it will make it easier to pull off of the panel. You want to make sure the tape lays down tight against the surface, or it will not be a good pattern. Any loose areas in the tape, will defect the quality of the part.




Fiberglass reinforced strapping tape is then used to hold the transfer tape together and to add strength to the pattern. In most cases, 1 layer over the top of the transfer tape will provide you with good results, especially for 1 time usage. I run the strapping tape at a different angle as the transfer tape to tie it all together, then run a single strip of strapping tape around the perimeter for added strength.




A Sharpie can be used to mark the perimeter of the panel to give you a better idea of where the true edges are. Transfering the edge cutlines onto the metal will help to align the pattern in the same spot each time. It is very important that the pattern be indexed to the metal to insure it is fitted at the same exact spot each time it's layed on the metal, otherwise, you will fight it the whole way.
Here is the flexible shape pattern, flipped inside out for use as the pattern for the left fender. Along with it, is the blank of metal, cut about 1" oversize all around to insure there is enough to trim off later. Laying the flexible shape pattern on the flat piece of metal tells where the metal needs stetched, or shrunk. I chose to make this one by stretching only. Normally I would try to split it close to 50/50 stretch and shrink, but this panel isn't so extreme that I can't get by with it. It won't thin out very much at the thinnest point. By the way, I'm using 19ga. commercial quality cold rolled steel. Nothing fancy! All the marks on the blank is used as a guide to tell me where to stretch. The flexible shape pattern tells exactly were the panel needs stretched. Any areas on the pattern that doesn't lay down tight against the metal, is an area that needs to be stretched.



This is after about 5 minutes of hammering on the beater bag. The flexible shape pattern tells me that it's very close, with just a couple small areas that still fit loose to the panel. It will need run through the english wheel to planish the lumps and bumps and to further refine the shape.



After running it through the english wheel and smoothing it all out, the shape pattern tells me that there are still some small areas left to be stretched. I can lightly tap these areas by taking it back to the beater bag and just giving it a few love taps, or I can crank up the pressure on the e-wheel and do it that way. No bigger than this panel is, I chose to do it in the wheel. Just a few minutes and the shape pattern was fitting tight all over, which tells me the panel now has the right amount of surface area in the correct spot. Although, the panel looks way off, it's only an arrangement (form) issue. I can bend it around by hand now in to any arrangement I want and not change the surface area (shape)
Just a little manipulation and it'll fit great!! I'll make some contour gauges off the other fender to use as a guide for re-arranging it into the desired form. That will be in the next installment though.

I think I made this panel, and this post, in about the same amount of time!! 2 hours




Randy Ferguson
Metalshaping & Kustom Paint
www.metalmeet.com

Hello All,
Well, I'm sure you're all sick of looking at this stuff by now, so I'll wrap it up in this post. I thought I had done a better job of taking pictures, but somehow I missed a lot of what I should have gotten. I skipped all the installation sequences on the left fender, as it was just a repeat of the right one.
The grill shell was badly damaged from a collision apparently. It had been repaired previously, but not too well. There was a tear in the metal about 5" long, that had been gas welded, which the weldor did a good job of welding, but the metalfinishing was not so good! The metal surrounding the weld was stretched beyond belief and the entire grill shell was twisted, more than likely from more stetching on one side than the other. More material on one side of a panel will almost always result in a twisted condition. The only way to effectively repair it is to get rid of the residual stretch. In this case, although the metal was in fairly bad condition, having been beat on severely and fatigued from all the stress, it was still not beyond repair. Making a new piece was an option, but not necessary.
I started the repair by first transfering the outline of the fender, where it mounts to the grill shell onto a piece of poster board, indexing where the mounting holes were and any other information I could gather. I then used this as a template to guide the first step of the repair, which was to make sure the grill shell and fenders would mate up properly. One side was fair, but the other was horrible!! A little shrinker/stretcher work along the flange had this issue resolved in no time, but now comes the fun part....trying to get rid of all that extra material from the someone beating the heck outta this thing. The trusty shrinking disc was the tool of choice. I failed to get pictures of this process, but for the amount of stretched metal to deal with, it was a lengthy process. Some slapper and dolly work was necessary to remove the dents and dings before going at it with the shrinking disc, but those worked out pretty quick.

Here is the twisted mess



I wish I would have gotten more pictures of the progress, but I was short on time and failed to do so. If you run a search on this site for shrinking disc, you should find another post on the process I use when running the shrinking disc.

After several passes over this with the disc and lots of persuasion, it finally came around to my way of thinking. Remember, metal is stupid!! You tell it where to go, it'll obey!! Sometimes it'll try to fight back, but you just have to tell it who's boss!!

Here are all the finished parts







Randy Ferguson
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www.metalmeet.com

Last edited by Randy Ferguson; 07-25-2004 at 10:30 PM.
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Old 07-26-2004, 08:18 AM
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Randy, that is some beautiful work there. But could you back up about a million hours experiance and start someone off at a ding? Or if I did an ok job of a ding, go right past that a little. Or just focus on the bead area on that fender, where the tedious hand work is done. I think that is where the typical first timer is going to get his hands wet.
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Old 07-27-2004, 07:58 PM
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just for the sake of being a smart ***...Randy only has 4 years of experience with this stuff...assuming he hasn't left his shop to eat or sleep...or spend time with his wife and kids, he'd only have accrued 35040 hours of experience in metal shaping...assuming he put in 8 hours every single day since devoting himself to metal shaping, you're looking at 11680 hours.

In any case, Randy is definitely "up to speed" with shaping...quite capable of crafting an entire car body from flat sheetmetal if need be.

I'd be a little shocked if Randy breaks his tutorial down to a smaller denominator. The process he shows is the same process whether you are doing a large or small area...or if you're making a fender from scratch...the finishing is all the same. It takes practice no doubt.

-Hit it with the marker
-Sand it
-Work it
-Hit it with the marker
-Sand it
-Work it

on and on and on....
It's frustrating that it's so simple and many of us are sitting here scratching our heads. Even though I go up to Wray's shop all the time...and I see this process with my own two eyes...it's a hard thing to do. The only way to get good at it is to do it. Talking about it, reading about it...hell even watching someone like Randy do it, won't tool you to do it yourself.
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Old 07-27-2004, 08:06 PM
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I think that I'm feeling not up to snuff due to the fact that I'm not planishing or e-wheeling anything I do. At this time, I'm limited to my hammers and dollies. I just wonder if it's possible to get THAT finish with anything less than an e-wheel? if thats the case, then I see why so many use filler to get THAT finish......and now understand why my work doesn't look perfect.

time and money.
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Old 07-27-2004, 08:08 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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You only sound a little like a smart ars. I know your right to a large degree. A smaller area IS different in that it is a smaller area. If someone here sees a smaller area repaired, it is a heck of a lot more likely they will go out and try it.
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Old 07-27-2004, 10:00 PM
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Brian,
You might be right, in that others may attempt a smaller area, whereas they would fear working the larger areas, but Unstable is right, the process is exactly the same. Whether it's a dime size area or a basketball size, doesn't make any difference. The tools and the process is always the same, with very few exceptions.

Larry, you can get the same results with a slapper and dolly, it's just slower. I finish all my welds by hand, using a slapper and dolly and sometimes there will be an area that needs just a little tweaking and I will do those areas by hand also. For the most part, I don't use the english wheel after welding, tipping flanges, etc. There are times the slapper and dolly is the best route. Ferrari and others build entire bodies using very simple hand tools. The trick is in the knowledge, not the tools. A $25,000 Yoder power hammer won't make you a better metalshaper, but it WILL get you in trouble a whole lot faster. The knowledge must come first, then the tools necessary to make the job go faster.

Randy Ferguson
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Old 07-28-2004, 07:53 AM
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I've seen Wray planish a joint we welded with gas by hand.

http://hotrodders.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=276627
http://hotrodders.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=276629
http://hotrodders.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=276630


Here's the thread with the story:
http://hotrodders.com/showthread.php...ght=Gas+Vs+Mig


I've never seen someone use an english wheel to planish a joint that was welded OR work out a dent in a complete panel. The english wheel is generally used when you are forming something from scratch. After you rough the panel, you run it through the wheel which will loosen the metal up to a certain degree while at the same time stretching and planishing out the "rough" areas that you beat into the panel.

For minor repairs, I've never seen Wray use a planishing hammer or wheel. He uses a slapper made from an old Duesenberg (sp?) leaf spring and custom post dollies that he fabricated...which is a story in itself.
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