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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2008, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
i use spi but doubt you will get it there. as for heat it gets a little warm here in central texas epoxy has proven to be the best product for sealing metal or fiberglass. epoxy resin is best for fiberglass repair. i have never liked any kind of metal treatment simply because it is a gamble from the beginning. if you fail to remove all of it you have problems. dipping sucks for the same reason. we tried that several times over the years and had problems with each car. epoxy will stick when nothing else will . some of the vette guys i know here use "rust defender" by rubber seal (i think) but i have not tried it and most likely wont.
i've seen countless 80's/90's cars here with nothing on the roofs and hoods but a little primer residue.
I've spent a bit of time going through various tech sheets and forums and I see the PPG DP 40 product appears to be the most common although it's described as both epoxy AND self etching. I'll go and speak with a high end painter near me and ask his opinion ( he's just finished a paint job on a ...4.5 million dollar car.... ).

As I've said before the newest cars I work on are built before 1980 so anything that can halt oxidation at all will be used .I'm always open to better ideas !

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2008, 08:36 PM
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So it goes in the order of epoxy, block sand and any filler work, more epoxy and block, then basecoat, clearcoat...right?

Also, what grit have you found to be optimal for the filler to be put on the epoxy?

Thanks!
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:07 PM
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If you do your filler work over the epoxy within the epoxy's recoat window then you don't need to sand the epoxy at all. With the epoxy I use (SPI), I like to wait overnight before applying any filler. And I'll apply filler over it without any sanding for a few days. Anytime the epoxy goes over a few days I simply sand it first with 180 before applying filler. Works excellent.
Not all epoxy primers are alike, so make sure you follow the tech sheets for the product you are using. The bond strength of filler over epoxy within it's recoat window is very very good-it bites right in.
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Old 07-27-2008, 09:20 PM
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Another great proceedure for projects that are going to need a lot of blocking is: shoot two coat of epoxy over the clean and sanded bare metal, allow an overnight cure then apply three coats of polyester primer and block it with 80 to 120grit. Any low areas can be filled with filler directly over the polyester primer (polyester-on-polyester). Then sand with 180 and finish up with your final go around of primer and block to paint. Using the polyester primer gives you the advantage of the recoat window over the epoxy and also offers some extra material to block with so the amount of sand throughs is minimized-hope that makes sense.
Doing your filler work over epoxy is a tough learn for some people and they end up struggling with sand throughs to bare metal in places they shouldn't have. Learning the proceedure takes some time.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2008, 11:23 PM
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I have a feeling that I will be learing a lot with this technique, but my research is showing that this is the was to do it...

And I think you guys sold me on SPI for now

Off topic, but does anyone have the link to the SPI forum? I can't find it for the life of me
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2008, 11:28 PM
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Nevermind, stumbled upon it again!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2008, 06:19 AM
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epoxy only is just my choice of doing things. many painters will epoxy then use the primer of their choice. one thing i have found is not all epoxy is equal. i do not like ppg's epoxy, anything matrix makes sucks and not to happy with dupont. trying to do quality high end work with production products is a pia.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2008, 06:43 PM
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Have you guys had luck with shooting the epoxy over old factory paint?

Baddbob, when you say 'final go around of primer and block to paint', is that final another coat of epoxy or the poly primer?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 07-28-2008, 09:48 PM
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I don't paint directly over poly primer. Although most of the poly manufacturer's say It's OK to paint directly I won't. Poly is porus and will absorb a larger amount of solvent than a 2K urethane or epoxy and these solvents will then come out later and affect your gloss. I use a few thin coats of Urethane surfacer or epoxy as my final prime depending on the job. A good sandable epoxy (SPI ) works well for the final prime and offers the best solvent barrier and gloss retention in your final product. Get your paint on the epoxy within 7 days for the best adhesion or apply a sealer coat a few hours before paint. Urethane surfacer sands easier, and works OK but doesn't offer the solvent barrier of epoxy. Epoxy hybrids also are an option like PPG's NCP270, easy sanding like a regular urethane, high build, but less durability than a true epoxy. Don't paint directly over a poly primer.

As you can see, there's many options here. Some will argue against using epoxy primer as a surfacer mostly because most epoxies are designed as a non sandable product. Epoxies like DPLF and similar stay soft for a longer period of time and don't sand for crap, clog the paper, and roll. Some will even soften and wipe off with thinner even 30 days later and offer little as a solvent barrier. An epoxy that sands well is a blessing when compared to these other products IMO.
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Old 08-07-2008, 06:35 PM
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metal prep before filler

Shine, Have you used any of the so called HYBRID EPOXIES? I believe they are called DIRECT TO METAL primers. Supposedly an epoxy/surfacer combo, if my understanding is correct. Anyone else have any opinions on these products? Thanks,Dave
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2008, 07:15 PM
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i use spi epoxy as a surfacer . dont like primers .
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2008, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
Doing your filler work over epoxy is a tough learn for some people and they end up struggling with sand throughs to bare metal in places they shouldn't have. Learning the proceedure takes some time.

(emphasis added)
I resemble that remark.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2008, 05:57 AM
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first coat of epoxy is for protection. sanding through is no problem. cant do metal work without sanding through. i blast then epoxy before panel replacement and bodywork. just recoat when your done .
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2008, 06:29 PM
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Shine
I don't want to steal the thread, but I have a few questions. What about on hi humidity days when sandblasted metal likes to rust fairly fast. Who makes SPI? How does it sand? I will want to try it on the next car I do. The only epoxy I have used was Duponts Colar which took two men and a small boy to sand. We followed the Duponts reps suggestion of sandblasting, metal prep Vari Prime Colar then Centari with Centari Performance Pak.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2008, 11:36 AM
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i finish blasting a part then take it to the booth and clean it. apply epoxy and forget about it. a small amount of surface rust is not really a problem, scuff it with 80 grit and go.
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