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Old 09-11-2009, 07:12 AM
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Metal Prep and Epoxy Primer.... No so fast !

I have very limited resources where I live.... that is why I come here.... for help.....

Now,

I am chemically stripping my father's car and we are hoping to use a Metal Prep before we Prime because we have space issues etc and there will be some time before the primer goes on.....

I have read that Metal Prep's and Epoxy Primers may not mix that well on top of each other....

I would like to know what combo's of these you guys have used that will satisfy my situation.....

I don't have a paint tech/rep anywhere near me... I have to order everything...

Ospho works with _(blank)____Epoxy Primer ?

Por 15 Metal Prep works with _(blank)_____ Epoxy Primer ?

The more brand names the better I am not up to speed on a lot of the letter designations....

thanks


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Old 09-11-2009, 07:28 AM
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strip it , wash with water to neutralize the stripper, clean well with wax and grease remover the 2 coats of spi epoxy. your good until your ready to prime. the days of acid etch are long gone and were for getting a bond with lacquer. it is advised against by just about all paint mfgrs . call their tech line and get your info from the ones who make it.
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:11 AM
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Listen to Shine, he knows his **it. I would follow his advice to the letter.

Vince
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:31 AM
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dont listen to me or anyone else on this. call ppg or dupont or whoever you use . i use spi and it is not recommended period. you need nothing under epoxy but clean metal. no acids of any kind.
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Old 09-11-2009, 08:51 AM
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I have been doing the epoxy primer for several years now and I have parts that are 3-4 years since they were cleaned and epoxied and they show no rust..we did a complete 38 olds body that way about 3 years ago with the SPI epoxy and it shows no rust and for quite some time it set out in the weather..I have not had that kind of result from any other product. Should be noted most of these projects are long term..when we get around to it all I will do is scuff the epoxy and proceed with paint and body work..

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Old 09-11-2009, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
dont listen to me or anyone else on this. call ppg or dupont or whoever you use . i use spi and it is not recommended period. you need nothing under epoxy but clean metal. no acids of any kind.
Alright, don't listen to Shine , but do not under any circumstances use PPG epoxy...it is the pits.

Vince
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:47 PM
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Ok, so I do SPI expoxy over bare metal lets say I do a hood one afternoon if I start the hood it needs to be completely stripped both sides, cleaned and expoxied the same day "Yes" ?

What if I had to leave the metal overnight ? Most likely I will get rusty panel overnight then what ? If I don't use a metal prep am I not getting myself into trouble ?

Thanks for all the help guys !
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Old 09-11-2009, 02:13 PM
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i blast and then wash with water. a little surface rust is no big deal. most times it is iron ore in your water that you are seeing. scuff it and epoxy it.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:23 PM
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Just a preemptive note to let people know that I've identified this as an extremely common question, and a series of wiki articles addressing "Bare Metal to Primer" issues is on-deck. We have decent development in the area of getting down to bare metal (Stripping paint, Media blasting, Sandblasting, Soda blasting, Rust, Pitted rust) but not enough development in the area of getting from bare metal to primer. We do have a basic Epoxy primer article, but I'd like to develop that area of the wiki further. I'd also like to get to the point where our pros do not have to repeat themselves on these common issues.

I don't foresee myself having time to tackle this issue until this coming week at the earliest, but if anyone else wants to get it started, you can use this link to start a new wiki article: Start a new wiki article. Thanks.
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Old 09-11-2009, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
dont listen to me or anyone else on this. call ppg or dupont or whoever you use . i use spi and it is not recommended period. you need nothing under epoxy but clean metal. no acids of any kind.
what he said, I've been told that by a painter when I went for my bodywork repair degree
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Old 09-15-2009, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
strip it , wash with water to neutralize the stripper, clean well with wax and grease remover the 2 coats of spi epoxy. your good until your ready to prime. the days of acid etch are long gone and were for getting a bond with lacquer. it is advised against by just about all paint mfgrs . call their tech line and get your info from the ones who make it.
WASH IT WITH WATER?????? hahahaha Try laquer thinner and a red scuff pad and you wont get any instant surface rust then do panel by panel prime as you go...SPI epoxy is the best I've used so far (35yrs)
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Old 09-15-2009, 05:46 AM
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you ever read tech sheets ? there is no chemstrip or acid made that does not neutralize with water period. lacquer thinner does not neutralize acid of any kind and is not a cleaning solvent. clean bare steel is what is needed for epoxy. nothing else. we wash ever car that is blasted with soap and water to remove contaminates and blast media then blow dry and epoxy.
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Old 09-15-2009, 06:39 AM
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REALLY????? I'm so glad you told me this, since I've been doing it all my life but then again I dont do fiberglass cars I do metal one's that rust and dent and all sorts of stuff.Tell ya what guys try it both ways on a fender since you would be the unbiased judges then let us ALL know which works best. That'll end this debate once and for all.... My way;chem strip,clean with laquer and redscuff pad,wax& greese remover.ospho,applied with red scuff pad wipe off excess with paper shop towel,after dry (24hrs)sand with 180 or 320 and epoxy prime....Ospho's 10-$15.00 per quart read directions BTW I live in the rust belt(east coast) from NY to FLA where its important to properly treat metal before wasting 1000 hrs restoring a car only to have it last a couple years

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Old 09-15-2009, 07:15 AM
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a professional follows the procedures set forth by the mfg . since i use spi i follow Barry's procedure which is absolutely no acid and no lacquer thinner below his epoxy. Barry has stated this time and time again here but he no longer post here because he grew tired of arguing with people about a product he makes himself. many other professionals have stopped posting here for the same reason . your welcome to do anything you like but to give advise contradictory to mfg procedures is irresponsible and confusing to the novice . my advice to anyone visiting this site is to contact the tech department of the paint mfg you are going to use and follow their procedure to the letter. if they recommend a metal prep the by all means use it . paint strippers have tech lines also and will tell you how to neutralize stripper .
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Old 09-15-2009, 09:15 AM
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I agree, if a chemical stripper is used it needs to be neutralized with water, be it a steel or glass car. Acid or caustic stripper residue left on the surface can and will cause a myriad of problems.

Vince
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