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Old 05-13-2004, 11:29 PM
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Metalshaping/Body Panel Fabrication

Hi Folks,
I posted a tutorial a few days ago on how to fabricate and install body replacement panels on a '34 Chrysler fender. In that post, I mentioned that the damage was so bad that I was not able to get enough information to make the part, but that the owner had an original car that was usable to make a plaster of paris mold to give me the surface information needed to make the part. This mold was taken off the right fender. When I spoke with the owner about doing this, I told him one side would suffice. So what to do now??? The left fender needs the same treatment, but I have no pattern for it!!!
Barry K asked me a while back if a pattern could made off an existing part, without damaging the paint. Although this one isn't painted, the process it the same. Tonight, I will show how to make a pattern off an existing shape. If you were to be involved in an accident, in which a body panel was so badly damaged it was beyond repair, and no parts were available, you might find this of interest. By having the mold from the right fender, transfering that to a wireform/bondo buck and making the part, I now have the information needed to make the panel for the left fender. This will probably be a two part post, as I haven't finished the panel yet, but plan to this week-end.
The right fender has the panel installed and has been metalfinished, meaning that there is no need for body filler. 2-3 coats of primer will take care of any minor imperfections. This will allow me to make a flexible shape pattern from it.
To make the pattern, start by laying strips of 1"-2" medium tack transfer tape on the area needing copied. (The transfer tape can be purchased from your local vinyl sign shop.) If you lay each succesive strip overlapping the previous one, it will make it easier to pull off of the panel. You want to make sure the tape lays down tight against the surface, or it will not be a good pattern. Any loose areas in the tape, will defect the quality of the part.




Fiberglass reinforced strapping tape is then used to hold the transfer tape together and to add strength to the pattern. In most cases, 1 layer over the top of the transfer tape will provide you with good results, especially for 1 time usage. I run the strapping tape at a different angle as the transfer tape to tie it all together, then run a single strip of strapping tape around the perimeter for added strength.




A Sharpie can be used to mark the perimeter of the panel to give you a better idea of where the true edges are. Transfering the edge cutlines onto the metal will help to align the pattern in the same spot each time. It is very important that the pattern be indexed to the metal to insure it is fitted at the same exact spot each time it's layed on the metal, otherwise, you will fight it the whole way.
Here is the flexible shape pattern, flipped inside out for use as the pattern for the left fender. Along with it, is the blank of metal, cut about 1" oversize all around to insure there is enough to trim off later. Laying the flexible shape pattern on the flat piece of metal tells where the metal needs stetched, or shrunk. I chose to make this one by stretching only. Normally I would try to split it close to 50/50 stretch and shrink, but this panel isn't so extreme that I can't get by with it. It won't thin out very much at the thinnest point. By the way, I'm using 19ga. commercial quality cold rolled steel. Nothing fancy! All the marks on the blank is used as a guide to tell me where to stretch. The flexible shape pattern tells exactly were the panel needs stretched. Any areas on the pattern that doesn't lay down tight against the metal, is an area that needs to be stretched.



This is after about 5 minutes of hammering on the beater bag. The flexible shape pattern tells me that it's very close, with just a couple small areas that still fit loose to the panel. It will need run through the english wheel to planish the lumps and bumps and to further refine the shape.



After running it through the english wheel and smoothing it all out, the shape pattern tells me that there are still some small areas left to be stretched. I can lightly tap these areas by taking it back to the beater bag and just giving it a few love taps, or I can crank up the pressure on the e-wheel and do it that way. No bigger than this panel is, I chose to do it in the wheel. Just a few minutes and the shape pattern was fitting tight all over, which tells me the panel now has the right amount of surface area in the correct spot. Although, the panel looks way off, it's only an arrangement (form) issue. I can bend it around by hand now in to any arrangement I want and not change the surface area (shape)
Just a little manipulation and it'll fit great!! I'll make some contour gauges off the other fender to use as a guide for re-arranging it into the desired form. That will be in the next installment though.

I think I made this panel, and this post, in about the same amount of time!! 2 hours




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Old 05-14-2004, 07:40 AM
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good stuff.

Wray actually let me help make a Jag panel a few weeks back. It was around the deck-lid.

We made the flexible shape, Wray cut the piece out and worked it with the helve, wheeled it for about 2 minutes then gave it to me to finish. Wray is so proficient, by the time he gave it to me, there wasn't a whole lot left to do to get the panel about where it should be.

I wheeled on it for awhile and kept referring back to my flexible shape. There were a few areas that needed stretched a little more. I tried cranking up the pressure on the wheel and getting stretch that way...but it came SLOW, very very SLOW. I felt in my heart that I should just throw the panel on the bag and tap out those areas a little...BUT, being that I was actually HELPING on a production part, I didn't want to screw anything up.

Finally Wray returned from downstairs and I showed him where I stood, he said it was ok to pop those areas out with the hammer, then I was back wheeling some more. Check the flexible shape, and now a few other areas are off. more tapping and wheeling.

Now let me ask you, how effective do you feel the e-wheel is for stretching? I didn't have much success with it.
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Old 05-14-2004, 04:45 PM
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Hi Unstable,

Much of what I know about metalshaping is a direct result of paying attention to Wray. He's a great teacher and an even better friend. The only way to learn this, is to get out in the shop and make it happen.

Randy
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Old 05-14-2004, 07:20 PM
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Wray is a great guy. People like him are far and few between.

Randy--
Do you use MIG to weld your panels together?
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Old 05-15-2004, 12:25 AM
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Hi Unstable,
I've used a MIG for many years, because that's all I had. Lately I've been using TIG. I haven't bought one yet, but a friend has let me use his and get it dialed in for him, so now I'm in search of the one I want.

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Old 06-02-2005, 10:29 PM
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Can't view pictures

Hello Randy:
I can't get the pics opened on this post , or part & part 3. All I see is a white square with a red x init where the pic is supposed to be. Am I not doing something right? Or have the pictures been taken off, lost ? I'd really like to see all the sequences in the 3 posts. I'm referring to the 34 chrysler fender fab.Please advise. Joe
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Old 06-02-2005, 11:58 PM
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part 1 again

Metalshaping/Panel replacement '34 Chrysler fender



There seems to be a growing interest in panel replacement and metalshaping in general. I worked on a '34 Chrysler front fender Saturday and thought I might post a bit of a tutorial on how I make and install panels.
The first picture is how the fender looked when I received it. Due to possible light collision, rust and botched previous repairs, it was time for some new material.




The owner happens to have an original car identical to this one, which is being street rodded. This area of the fender has to be perfect, as the fender irons and frame horns sandwich the fender. Both front fenders were bad, so we were forced to use the original cars fenders as the patterns. The owner removed the front bumper and made me a plaster of paris mold off the original fender. I then use 1/4" hot roll rod, bent to conform closely to the surface of the mold. I then use a heavy paste furniture wax to insure that the buck will release upon completion.
Once I have the rods placed where I want them, I use 1/4" nuts to hold it off the surface of the mold. (The same can be done off the inside of an original part) I use fiberglass reinforced bondo to cover the rods and to achieve the true surface by making sure the filler has good surface contact where I need it. The voids left between the rods are to see how the metal sits on the buck. The area where you see the regular bondo is in an area that I thought may need to be hammerformed, but as it turns out, that was not necessary.



I failed to get a picture of the new panel resting on the buck, but here it is tack into place. I use a MIG welder to tack the two together. Note that this is butt welded, not lapped!



I then go in and weld a continuous bead between each spot weld, in 1" increments. If it looks like the panel is getting out of control due to warpage, I'll grind down the proud weld and crush it with a hammer and dolly. This will stretch the metal that has been shrunk from the welding process. You do not want to work outside of the heat affected zone, This is the blued area around the weld bead. Anything beyond the heat affected zone is not in need of further work. As the metal is stretched in the HAZ, it will relax and the distortion will disappear.



Once I have the welding done, I use a 1/16" disc in a cut-off saw to remove the proud weld, leaving it just above the surface by a few thousandths. I then crush the welds, relieving the shrinkage from the heat of the welding process. This also cold forges the weld seam, making for a stronger joint. If done properly, it will be as one piece of metal with no trace of being welded.
Once I'm satisfied with the results from the hammer and dolly treatment, I will further planish the panel using a slapper and dolly. The slapper has a much larger contact point, yielding a smoother, straighter finish. Any high areas of weld can now be taken care of and if it feels and looks straight, the shrinking disc can be run over the panel to further smooth out any slight imperfections. The slapper and shrinking disc are both in this shot. The slapper is one I made from an old car leaf spring, and the shrinking disc is a 9" diameter piece of 18ga. stainlees steel sheet with a 1/4" flange. It runs on a 6,000 rpm grinder and produces plenty of heat to controllably shrink sheet metal. The shrinking disc is available from John Kelly at ghiafab@msn.com



And, here's another shot of the near completed panel. I have yet to roll in the wire edge, but the bulk of the work is complete. This is one tough panel to shape. There isn't a straight part of it and much of it is what we refer to as reverse curves.



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Old 06-03-2005, 12:01 AM
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part 2 again

Hi Folks,
I posted a tutorial a few days ago on how to fabricate and install body replacement panels on a '34 Chrysler fender. In that post, I mentioned that the damage was so bad that I was not able to get enough information to make the part, but that the owner had an original car that was usable to make a plaster of paris mold to give me the surface information needed to make the part. This mold was taken off the right fender. When I spoke with the owner about doing this, I told him one side would suffice. So what to do now??? The left fender needs the same treatment, but I have no pattern for it!!!
Barry Kives asked me a while back if a pattern could made off an existing part, without damaging the paint. Although this one isn't painted, the process it the same. Tonight, I will show how to make a pattern off an existing shape. If you were to be involved in an accident, in which a body panel was so badly damaged it was beyond repair, and no parts were available, you might find this of interest. By having the mold from the right fender, transfering that to a wireform/bondo buck and making the part, I now have the information needed to make the panel for the left fender. This will probably be a two part post, as I haven't finished the panel yet, but plan to this week-end.
The right fender has the panel installed and has been metalfinished, meaning that there is no need for body filler. 2-3 coats of primer will take care of any minor imperfections. This will allow me to make a flexible shape pattern from it.
To make the pattern, start by laying strips of 1"-2" medium tack transfer tape on the area needing copied. (The transfer tape can be purchased from your local vinyl sign shop.) If you lay each succesive strip overlapping the previous one, it will make it easier to pull off of the panel. You want to make sure the tape lays down tight against the surface, or it will not be a good pattern. Any loose areas in the tape, will defect the quality of the part.




Fiberglass reinforced strapping tape is then used to hold the transfer tape together and to add strength to the pattern. In most cases, 1 layer over the top of the transfer tape will provide you with good results, especially for 1 time usage. I run the strapping tape at a different angle as the transfer tape to tie it all together, then run a single strip of strapping tape around the perimeter for added strength.




A Sharpie can be used to mark the perimeter of the panel to give you a better idea of where the true edges are. Transfering the edge cutlines onto the metal will help to align the pattern in the same spot each time. It is very important that the pattern be indexed to the metal to insure it is fitted at the same exact spot each time it's layed on the metal, otherwise, you will fight it the whole way.
Here is the flexible shape pattern, flipped inside out for use as the pattern for the left fender. Along with it, is the blank of metal, cut about 1" oversize all around to insure there is enough to trim off later. Laying the flexible shape pattern on the flat piece of metal tells where the metal needs stetched, or shrunk. I chose to make this one by stretching only. Normally I would try to split it close to 50/50 stretch and shrink, but this panel isn't so extreme that I can't get by with it. It won't thin out very much at the thinnest point. By the way, I'm using 19ga. commercial quality cold rolled steel. Nothing fancy! All the marks on the blank is used as a guide to tell me where to stretch. The flexible shape pattern tells exactly were the panel needs stretched. Any areas on the pattern that doesn't lay down tight against the metal, is an area that needs to be stretched.



This is after about 5 minutes of hammering on the beater bag. The flexible shape pattern tells me that it's very close, with just a couple small areas that still fit loose to the panel. It will need run through the english wheel to planish the lumps and bumps and to further refine the shape.



After running it through the english wheel and smoothing it all out, the shape pattern tells me that there are still some small areas left to be stretched. I can lightly tap these areas by taking it back to the beater bag and just giving it a few love taps, or I can crank up the pressure on the e-wheel and do it that way. No bigger than this panel is, I chose to do it in the wheel. Just a few minutes and the shape pattern was fitting tight all over, which tells me the panel now has the right amount of surface area in the correct spot. Although, the panel looks way off, it's only an arrangement (form) issue. I can bend it around by hand now in to any arrangement I want and not change the surface area (shape)
Just a little manipulation and it'll fit great!! I'll make some contour gauges off the other fender to use as a guide for re-arranging it into the desired form. That will be in the next installment though.

I think I made this panel, and this post, in about the same amount of time!! 2 hours

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Old 06-03-2005, 12:03 AM
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and....part 3 again

Hello All,
Well, I'm sure you're all sick of looking at this stuff by now, so I'll wrap it up in this post. I thought I had done a better job of taking pictures, but somehow I missed a lot of what I should have gotten. I skipped all the installation sequences on the left fender, as it was just a repeat of the right one. Unfortunately, I didn't get the re-arranging of the panel with the contour gauges either, so please forgive me!!
The grill shell was badly damaged from a collision apparently. It had been repaired previously, but not too well. There was a tear in the metal about 5" long, that had been gas welded, which the weldor did a good job of welding, but the metalfinishing was not so good! The metal surrounding the weld was stretched beyond belief and the entire grill shell was twisted, more than likely from more stetching on one side than the other. More material on one side of a panel will almost always result in a twisted condition. The only way to effectively repair it is to get rid of the residual stretch. In this case, although the metal was in fairly bad condition, having been beat on severely and fatigued from all the stress, it was still not beyond repair. Making a new piece was an option, but not necessary.
I started the repair by first transfering the outline of the fender, where it mounts to the grill shell onto a piece of poster board, indexing where the mounting holes were and any other information I could gather. I then used this as a template to guide the first step of the repair, which was to make sure the grill shell and fenders would mate up properly. One side was fair, but the other was horrible!! A little shrinker/stretcher work along the flange had this issue resolved in no time, but now comes the fun part....trying to get rid of all that extra material from the someone beating the heck outta this thing. The trusty shrinking disc was the tool of choice. I failed to get pictures of this process, but for the amount of stretched metal to deal with, it was a lengthy process. Some slapper and dolly work was necessary to remove the dents and dings before going at it with the shrinking disc, but those worked out pretty quick.

Here is the twisted mess



I wish I would have gotten more pictures of the progress, but I was short on time and failed to do so. If you run a search on this site for shrinking disc, you should find another post on the process I use when running the shrinking disc.

After several passes over this with the disc and lots of persuasion, it finally came around to my way of thinking. Remember, metal is stupid!! You tell it where to go, it'll obey!! Sometimes it'll try to fight back, but you just have to tell it who's boss!!

Here are all the finished parts

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Old 06-03-2005, 06:54 AM
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Randy, you do nice work! I just picked up some railroad rail iron to fab up an English wheel- think that'll work alright? Heavy stuff
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Old 06-03-2005, 07:14 AM
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Hi Randy,

I assure you, no one is sick of looking at your work!

John www.ghiaspecialties.com
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Old 06-03-2005, 08:19 PM
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Hi Bob,

Thanks! The railroad iron may work fine, I'm not sure. It's definitely heavy, but I don't know what kind of stresses it can handle as opposed to it's mass. You won't know til you try. Torsional twist is more of a concern than simple bending under a load. ALL english wheels will have varying degrees of flex, no matter what you do. I have easily used over 50 english wheels of all sorts of designs and I prefer a very stiff wheel over one with noticeable flex and torsional twist anyday!! I've built mine to eliminate as much flex as possible!!




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Old 06-03-2005, 08:24 PM
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Wow! that looks like a heavy duty wheel there. Nice
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Old 06-04-2005, 11:45 PM
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Pictures

Hi Randy:
The photos came thru great. I got a lot from them. Thanks. Now for my questions: When making the wire form buck, how accurate do you have to make the bends in the wire? I am assuming you need to get them as a close as you can, but don't have to be right on because the bondo will take up the slack ? On planishing the welds: Did you mig the whole seem ? I had the understanding that it was hard to planish mig welded seems . Is that true ?
Incidentally I'm totally new at this. I'm working on a '68 Pontiac Lemans and fixing numerous rust outs. ( Yes cars in California do rust.. especially if you live near the ocean).I am attempting to teach myself so I have made some that didn't come out quite right and will have to be redone, but that is how you learn. I just finished mig welding a patch in the left front fender and it is a little lumpy. Also, last but not least, can you run the shrinking disc over the mig welds once you have straighted them with hammer & dolly. Once again thanks for reposting the photos. Joe
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Old 06-05-2005, 02:40 PM
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Hi Joe,

For what you're doing, you don't necessarily need a wireform/bondo buck. The only reason I made this one is because we were lacking the needed info to make a replacement panel for the fender. The owner first made a plaster of paris mold off one of his other cars, and I in turn used it to make the buck. I only used the buck for the one side, then once the panel was made, I simply used a flexible shape pattern and contour gages to make the opposite side. You could get by easily by using only a flexible shape pattern and contour gages. If the area is rusted away, you either need to find another car to go by, and hope the owner will allow you to make patterns from it, or bondo the missing area and sand it to the correct shape before making the flex pattern. And, to answer your question, the wires only need to be close to the proper contour. I normally run them about 1/4" off the surface of the part I'm copying.
I only tack welded these panels with the mig. The seam was then welded using the tig. It is possible to metalfinish mig welds, contrary to what some have said. If you search my posts on this forum, you will find more info on this subject. Hopefully the pics are still there. If not, I'll re-post.
Yes, you can use the shrinking disc over mig welds. The trick to finishing mig welds is to grind away the majority of the proud weld before crushing the weld with hammer and dolly (I actually prefer a slapper in place of the hammer) You should be able to crush the remaining slightly proud weld into the surrounding metal. This is a process we call cold forging. When done properly, the seam is just as strong as though it was one continuous piece of metal.

Randy
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