[barnym17]

also on the down side for methanol, it is extremely corossive, attracts moisture from the air readily. A lot of fuel system maintenance is required with it's use.In a racing vehicle it is worth it for the extra tourque produced but on the street it be a P.I.T.A. also with methanol prices it would be a wash or slightly higher than leaded race fuel. Around here Citgo 110 octane is 3.33 a gal. Methanol is around 2.00 a gal. and for equal power output it takes approx 2 times as much methanol per mile.

[johnsongrass1]

Originally Posted by xntrik

Billy, You just said=

"Therefore, an engine burning methyl alcohol would produce the most power."

Isn't that what I said?????.....

It isn't the fuel that makes power it's the compression increase that makes it. Go a head and fill your tank full of alky and see how well it runs.

Gallon for gallon it doesn't make as much heat energy. But you can stuff a lot more into the engine and that extra fuel produces more heat. Carries more oxygen with it too.

I guess It depends on how technical you wanna get with it.

[ChevelleSS_LS6]

Originally Posted by LilSmoke

Actually, it take 2.2 times more alc to produce the same btus as gas,but it will produce upwards of 30% more power and loves high comp 16 to 18 to 1 are not uncommon.Plus on a drag car a cooling system is unneccesary as it usually will actually cool off going down the track.

THAT is some sweet info! And I thought 11.0:1 was high, and anything more than 11.5:1 was race fuel territory.

[xntrik]

Originally Posted by johnsongrass1

It isn't the fuel that makes power it's the compression increase that makes it. Go a head and fill your tank full of alky and see how well it runs.

Gallon for gallon it doesn't make as much heat energy. But you can stuff a lot more into the engine and that extra fuel produces more heat. Carries more oxygen with it too.

I guess It depends on how technical you wanna get with it.

Way back there I said that

I took the same car,

went from METH to ETH (with rejetting) and the car had less power. I tried it 3 times and the results were the same. The car was always noticably faster on METH. But it wasn't worth the price difference since I still was winning every race anyway.

Keep on arguing. You can't change the experiences that I lived.

[xntrik]

Originally Posted by ChevelleSS_LS6

THAT is some sweet info! And I thought 11.0:1 was high, and anything more than 11.5:1 was race fuel territory.

Alky IS race fuel.....

Compressions above 12/1 are extremely difficult to get a good burn pattern in the chambers with dome pistons.

The answer is big cubes, flat top pistons, and small chamber heads.

When you convert a daily driver the mileage sucks. As I noted earlier, I think, my computer cars lose 6% mileage with 10 % ETH blends, so who cares if it is 10 cents cheaper????

[jimfulco]

Ethanol is not as corrosive to carburetor parts as methanol.

[Brian S]

"It isn't the fuel that makes power it's the compression increase that makes it. Go a head and fill your tank full of alky and see how well it runs."

I can't say I agree with this. I would rephrase this to say, it isn't only the fuel that makes power it's also the compression or the amount boost pressure in a forced induction application that makes it...

There's not much point filling the tank with alcohol if the fuel system isn't capable of delivering the volume needed.

"Compressions above 12/1 are extremely difficult to get a good burn pattern in the chambers with dome pistons.

The answer is big cubes, flat top pistons, and small chamber heads."

Yes, and no. I can easily get 13:1+ with a low buck Ford 400 or 427/400 stroker combo using flat tops and closed chamber heads. Ill post some specs later.

408/400 Ford
--------------
Bore: 4.03 (+.030)
Stroke: 4.0
Chamber volume: 58cc (AU 302C)
Valve relief: -2cc FT custom pistons from T.Meyer
Head Gasket .041

---------------------
13.2:1 compression

or,

Chamber volume: 63cc (US 351C 4V)
--------------------------
12.4:1 compression

or,

Chamber volume: 50cc (Blue Thunder heads)
-------------------------
14.8:1 compression

427/400 Ford stroker
--------------
Bore: 4.03 (+.030)
Stroke: 4.175 (offset ground 400 crank, 2.123 journal, 240 I6 con rods)
Chamber volume: 58cc (AU 302C)
Valve relief: -2cc FT pistons, Wiseco custom
Head Gasket .041
---------------------
13.7:1 compression

or,

Chamber volume: 63cc (US 351C 4V)
-------------------
12.9:1 compression

or,

Chamber volume: 50cc (Blue Thunder heads)
-------------------------
15.4:1 compression

434/400 Ford stroker, T.Meyer kit
--------------
Bore: 4.03 (+.030)
Stroke: 4.25 (351W Eagle crank, custom rods & pistons)
Chamber volume: 58cc (AU 302C)
Valve relief: -2cc FT pistons
Head Gasket .041
---------------------
14.1:1 compression

or,

Chamber volume: 63cc (US 351C 4V)
-------------------
13.1:1 compression

or,

Chamber volume: 50cc (Blue Thunder heads)
-------------------------
15.7:1 compression

The last combo would set you back quite a few dollars but I think you'd be approaching 1000hp. Not too shabby for a '70s smog era engine with a poor reputation.

http://www.tmeyerinc.com/cart400pistons.htm
http://www.fordmuscle.com/calculators/compression.shtml

[jamesinark]

When I started this thread I never expected to get this kind of response .I really appreciate the amount of information you guys have given.It'll take a little while to mentally digest all of it.I asked the questions I did mainly because I was contemplating using methanol as a independent fuel enrichment circuit under boost of over 7 psi.I was intending to use 91 octane gas for the main fuel supply while not under boost (or at least under low boost)and using methanol as the secondary source of fuel under mid to high boost conditions.Right now I'm confused as to which would be better (i.e. methanol or ethanol) and whether I shouldn't just use alcohol for the whole thing.I'll be using a F.A.S.T.,Haltech,or Edelbrock MPI system.I just need a bit more info to decide which,but that isn't the main problem I'm having about deciding.My main problem is I need to use the most tuneable system since I'll be running a twinturbo set-up in the 20psi. range at W.O.T. So you can see why I was considering using alcohol as the main fuel source rather than piggyback a separate system for it for high boost conditions.I already have an intercooler system that is going to be very efficient so maybe the alcohol question is moot? Any info would be greatly appreciated.Thanks for everthing and lookinf foward to hearing more!

[techinspector1]

A rule of thumb is 9:1 for ethanol and 6:1 for methanol.

[jamesinark]

Are those air/fuel ratios you quoted?I would assume they are since higher compression ratios are the norm with alcohol burning engines.

[techinspector1]

Yes they are James.

[jamesinark]

Thanks for clarifiying that.Any suggestions on which would be better for the street part-time?

[ChevelleSS_LS6]

for use on the street, I'd use what's easiest/least expensive to buy between ethanol and methanol.

I'm not sure which would be better for use in automobiles, I'm assuming ethanol since that's what they're mixing in at the present.