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Old 09-19-2004, 10:47 AM
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Mid-60 Belvedere as a street/strip car

I am currently just looking into different alternatives worth building a street/strip car on.

So to the question:

Why is the mid-60 (lets say 65) Plymouth Belvedere so uncommon?

In most adds i*ve found its got the 727, 8 3/4 rear axle and a 318.

Either build on the 318, or swap for a 360, or maybe even BB/RB.

The car doesnt way awfully much either, about 3200-3300 # as I've understood it.

So what have i missed?

Why is this car so rare in comparison to, for example, 67-69 dart, chevelles, 3:rd gen Nova:s etc?

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Old 09-19-2004, 01:43 PM
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With production figures of 25,000ish 1965 Belvedere II hardtop coupes, and a further 12,500 2dr sedans they are not "rare" in a production sense, but are probably hard to find for sale in good shape.
They are fairly light cars, good for racing for sure, big blocks fit no problem, even the Hemis can be tossed in with common manufacturer bought parts.
There were FAR more Darts and Novas made over many years that account for the ease of finding one of those for sale, they were relatively common cars back in the day.
Finding a big block Dart or Nova for sale of a specific year would be just as hard a task, IMO.

I guess your choice should be a thought out decision on what you really want.
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Old 09-19-2004, 04:36 PM
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The old school rule is.........Every 100 pounds slows you down 1/10 of a second in a quarter mile.


That's why the lighter cars are preferred by most.

At 120 mph you are traveling 176 feet a second........400 lbs is 4 tenths slower ..........so you are over 70 feet behind.........everything else being equal.

That not taking the wind load or launch into consideration. The larger cars have a larger wind drag and a heavier car is slower off the line than the lighter car with the same weight/horsepower ratio.... as a general rule.

A bigger car will have a longer wheelbase and drive better at speed and have a stronger frame.

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Old 09-19-2004, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Deuce




The old school rule is.........Every 100 pounds slows you down 1/10 of a second in a quarter mile.


That's why the lighter cars are preferred by most.

At 120 mph you are traveling 176 feet a second........400 lbs is 4 tenths slower ..........so you are over 70 feet behind.........everything else being equal.

That not taking the wind load or launch into consideration. The larger cars have a larger wind drag and a heavier car is slower off the line than the lighter car with the same weight/horsepower ratio.... as a general rule.

A bigger car will have a longer wheelbase and drive better at speed and have a stronger frame.

Everything you state is correct, but frankly i cant see where you're going at?

Nova gen. 3, Chevelles and Camaros are all heavy, and quite big cars. And they all fit large engines to make up for it.

So why is the Belvedere such an unusual car to make a street/strip car out of, in comparison to the others mentioned?

Is it the fact that it's hard to find one in good shape or that parts are hard to find for the car, making it not practical to use as a race car (in which parts will constantly be worn)?
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Old 09-19-2004, 05:14 PM
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The reason you don't see a lot of mid 60's Mopars is that they had very poor corrosion resistance and most that you'll find are not much more than piles of rust.



I looked for quite a while before I found my '64 Polara and I had to go to Alabama to get a good one. The really valuable ones (Max Wedge cars) have been mostly bought up by collectors so chances of finding one of them are pretty low. That said if you can find a solid car you can build an 11 second street monster pretty easily. Chrysler B/RB engines are plentiful and capable of as much or more power than their Chevy counterparts so building a Max Wedge clone is pretty easy. I'm putting a stroked 400 big block using a standard 440 crank and .030 over bore (451 cu. in.) in my Polara and the biggest expense is a set of custom pistons ($550), everything else is on a par with Chevy prices.

Perhaps the biggest drawback to building one of these cars is availability of body parts. For some models (pre 65 mainly) quarter panels etc are pretty hard if not impossible to find.

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Old 09-19-2004, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gilligan
Everything you state is correct, but frankly i cant see where you're going at?

I did NOT recomend ANY cars.................did I?

I just pointed out that the heavier cars ( Mopars included ) are are a weight disadvantage when against lighter cars.....heads up racing.

He said.............

I am currently just looking into different alternatives woth building a street/strip car on

He is just LOOKING..........he may want a lighter vehicle..........it takes LESS horsepower to get the same results.

My 32 roadster is 2240 LBS................so MOST cars seem heavy to me


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Old 09-19-2004, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Centerline
The reason you don't see a lot of mid 60's Mopars is that they had very poor corrosion resistance and most that you'll find are not much more than piles of rust.

I looked for quite a while before I found my '64 Polara and I had to go to Alabama to get a good one. The really valuable ones (Max Wedge cars) have been mostly bought up by collectors so chances of finding one of them are pretty low. That said if you can find a solid car you can build an 11 second street monster pretty easily. Chrysler B/RB engines are plentiful and capable of as much or more power than their Chevy counterparts so building a Max Wedge clone is pretty easy. I'm putting a stroked 400 big block using a standard 440 crank and .030 over bore (451 cu. in.) in my Polara and the biggest expense is a set of custom pistons ($550), everything else is on a par with Chevy prices.

Perhaps the biggest drawback to building one of these cars is availability of body parts. For some models (pre 65 mainly) quarter panels etc are pretty hard if not impossible to find.

Centerline
I live in northern Europe and although rust is quite a big problem here generally, there seem to be som mid-60 mopars in acceptable condition at reasonable prices here.

However what makes me afraid is, as you mention, availability of parts for the cars. When you say some body parts are hard to find, do you include all options (new "stock", aftermarket replacements etc.) or only cheaper options (junkyard, used parts etc.).

Cause if you mean "all options", you are really scaring me...

Quote:
Originally posted by Deuce
I did NOT recomend ANY cars.................did I?

I just pointed out that the heavier cars ( Mopars included ) are are a weight disadvantage when against lighter cars.....heads up racing.

He said.............

I am currently just looking into different alternatives woth building a street/strip car on

He is just LOOKING..........he may want a lighter vehicle..........it takes LESS horsepower to get the same results.

My 32 roadster is 2240 LBS................so MOST cars seem heavy to me


Actually it was I who wrote the first post

Regarding light cars, nothing could be more true. If you look in the Engine forum i have a thread up on changing engines in mid60 Mopar A-bodies. Seems like no-one has the time for my stupid questions there however.....

Last edited by Gilligan; 09-19-2004 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 09-19-2004, 07:45 PM
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In Michigan, where these cars were made, an average mid sixties MoPar body was reclaimed by mother nature in about 15-18 years. Bad rust buckets they were!!. Floors, trunks, major structural parts all gone.. Thanks to the great four month salt baths they got every winter.
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BOBCRMAN@aol.com
In Michigan, where these cars were made, an average mid sixties MoPar body was reclaimed by mother nature in about 15-18 years. Bad rust buckets they were!!. Floors, trunks, major structural parts all gone.. Thanks to the great four month salt baths they got every winter.
Seems like we are lucky up in northern europe then.

But our definitions of "common" maybe are a bit fifferent.

A common 30-40 year old car for me is if I can find around 10-20 or more for sale at a given time, all around the country (population: 9 million).
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Old 09-20-2004, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gilligan
Seems like we are lucky up in northern europe then.

I thought that you lived on a deserted island, Gilligan...................

Anyways, if you say that you can find quite a number of these cars over there, they must have been imported as fleet cars or maybe the US army. Are they mostly 4 doors?

Where are you ....Germany?
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Old 09-20-2004, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by poncho62
I thought that you lived on a deserted island, Gilligan...................

Anyways, if you say that you can find quite a number of these cars over there, they must have been imported as fleet cars or maybe the US army. Are they mostly 4 doors?

Where are you ....Germany?

No, you've got the wrong guy

I live in Sweden.

Regarding the cars you can check some of them out:

http://www.usabil.nu/databas/resulta...datum=89&bild=

around 7 SEK = 1 US dollar

Most of the them cost somewhere around 30 000 SEK = 4000 dollar. What do you guys think? Generally that is...

Regarding the issue of where they come from i have no idea =)
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Old 09-20-2004, 06:34 PM
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Neat cars Gilligan...................I like the wagons. If the bodies are solid, I would go for it.

Are Chevys and Fords as abundant as the Mopars?
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Old 09-21-2004, 08:13 AM
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Yup. You must have the Old MoPars home!! I'll bet the diesel powered Belvedere would have been a real seller here..... Right!

Good pics of MoPars. When I was younger, a friend of mine bought a new 63. 413 four speed. A race car with a factory warranty. I liked the 64-65 Dodges and the 65 Sport Furys.
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Old 09-21-2004, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by poncho62
Are Chevys and Fords as abundant as the Mopars?
Pretty much.

You can use the search engine yourself:

http://www.usabil.nu/databas/

Second column = brand
Third column = model

Thats all you need to know Then just press the "Sök"("Sok" for you guys maybe =)) button
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Old 09-21-2004, 01:39 PM
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OK.....will check it out..I guess there isn't an English version of the site, is there?
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