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Old 02-01-2012, 03:16 PM
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MIG welding ---.023 wire in a .030/.035 liner

my miller 211 is not feeding wire like it should, and its killing me

I have always heard that its ok to run the .023 wire in the .030/.035 liner that my welder came with
but I am having problems with it not always feeding right

I have done all the obvious, like try to keep it all straight or using big sweeping loops, when using it

when I roll it up, its not kinked, it lays over half of a atv wheel, for the hose hanger

I have been very careful with it, so as not to hurt the liner


could it be the liner is just too big?

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Old 02-01-2012, 04:00 PM
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maybe the tension on your rollers are too tight..I had the same issue with mine and it was solved by loosening the tension on the drive rollers and tightening a bit at a time until the wire feeds,,

Sam
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:04 PM
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Swap the roller wheels

I have to change my feed wheel to a .023 grove to feed the smaller wire. and then back to .o30 when i use that wire. plus re-adjust the tension on the feed wheel
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
maybe the tension on your rollers are too tight..I had the same issue with mine and it was solved by loosening the tension on the drive rollers and tightening a bit at a time until the wire feeds,,

Sam
too tight? what is it making it bind up a little?
of course when you have a problem, my first thing is to make it tighter
I will check that
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsfyj
I have to change my feed wheel to a .023 grove to feed the smaller wire. and then back to .o30 when i use that wire. plus re-adjust the tension on the feed wheel
I have the correct drive rollers, I checked that, because you just flip it over
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:22 PM
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I'm assuming that you also change the tip to a .023 also when changing the wire, if not that can cause problems. Also make sure there isn't any splatter inside the nozzel around the gas defuser or next to the insulator part of the inside of the nozzle. If there are any small particles of metal inside it can cause the wire to short out at the tip and can be pretty fustrating. causing it to hang up and jump and sometimes it can make the wire just melt at the end of the tip, damaging the tip itself.
If everything else seems to be ok you might try taking the welding gun lead loose from the welder and blow out the liner with compressed air to get any loose dirt and bits of metal shavings out of the inside of the liner.
You might also check the tension on the wire spool it'self just to make sure it isn't too tight to keep the drive wheels from pulling the wire smoothly.
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41'srfun
I'm assuming that you also change the tip to a .023 also when changing the wire, if not that can cause problems. Also make sure there isn't any splatter inside the nozzel around the gas defuser or next to the insulator part of the inside of the nozzle. If there are any small particles of metal inside it can cause the wire to short out at the tip and can be pretty fustrating. causing it to hang up and jump and sometimes it can make the wire just melt at the end of the tip, damaging the tip itself.
If everything else seems to be ok you might try taking the welding gun lead loose from the welder and blow out the liner with compressed air to get any loose dirt and bits of metal shavings out of the inside of the liner.
You might also check the tension on the wire spool it'self just to make sure it isn't too tight to keep the drive wheels from pulling the wire smoothly.
Thanks, all of that stuff is good

the only thing I have not done on that list, is blow out the liner with air

but I do have a wiper on the wire before it goes into the drive spools/liner

I pulled out the liner, and I cant see anything wrong with it, so for $20 I will buy a new one I guess?

talked to the guys at airgas and they also said that the 023 wire in the 030/035 liner is no problem
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:49 AM
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I had problems with my Miller175 not feeding wire real well.
I was using .023 wire in a .030 liner the same as you are doing.
It worked fine when new but after 20 odd pounds of wire it didn't work as well.
I changed to a liner for the .023 and still had a few problems with it.
After much head scratching and talking in tongues I solved the problem.
I had the drag on the wire spool to LOOSE.
The spool did not have the proper drag to keep a consistent tension on the wire between the spool and the drive rollers.
I run the tension adjustment on the drive rollers at 3.5 .
If you can run wire into the palm of your gloved hand and have it curl back fairly tight, your drive rollers are plenty tight and not slipping.

The .023 size liner does seem to run a bit better then the larger .030/.035 liner when using .023 wire.
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:42 PM
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new liner and that didnt fix it
so it has been shipped to the repair shop
everything was right, but it was still acting wrong
I still had 8mo. left, of the 3yr. warranty
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
new liner and that didnt fix it
so it has been shipped to the repair shop
everything was right, but it was still acting wrong
I still had 8mo. left, of the 3yr. warranty

Not sure what is causing your problem without being there... But I can tell you this much... It isn't your liner... The liner will be able to work with any one here .023,.030,and .035

The problem usually is the roller..
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:26 PM
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Make sure you don't have the spool to tight... Sometimes when your welding,, It will get tight.. To tight and you will have problems, To loose and you will have problems... You have to find that happy spot...
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Old 02-05-2012, 06:43 PM
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Actually if the drive rollers are "too" tight, it can deform the wire and cause problems at the tip. The correct way to adjust the wire tension is loosen the tension, hold the gun tip up to something solid and pull the trigger. Slowly tighten the tension until you feel a fair bit of resistance but not so much that it starts bending the wire. This way if something gets struck at the tip, the wire will slip in the rollers instead of "bird nesting" at the rollers.
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:14 AM
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Have you by chance been running your grinder near that welder? Grinding spatter will stick to a roll of wire just as it does when it hits glass and all those little goobers sticking to the wire will cause major problems with feeding, often the liner will be ruined and need replacing even after the wire is changed. I have seen this happen countless times, the welder will be sitting next to the work site and the grinding sparks will be falling onto the wire spool. When this happens about the only solution is to either unroll and discard enough of the wire to expose only clean wire or just toss the whole roll and replace it. Feel of the wire and see if it feels rough, not just along a few inches but check it really thoroughly and if you feel any tiny "snags" on it then your wire may be your problem. If the wire feels ok loosen the rollers until they release completely and then remove the contact tip, with the tip removed and the rollers completely released pull a few feet of wire through by hand and see if it moves smoothly. If you feel any drag at all or any rough spots you will have most likely found your problem and the solution is to replace the wire and/or the liner.

If the liner is dirty inside you might be able to blow air through it to clean it out some after removing the wire, that won't help if it's really clogged but sometimes it does help a lot. Even with that small wire running through the bigger liner these problems would still occur because of the debris lodged in the coils of a wire liner or embedded in a plastic liner.
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10 Racer
Actually if the drive rollers are "too" tight, it can deform the wire and cause problems at the tip. The correct way to adjust the wire tension is loosen the tension, hold the gun tip up to something solid and pull the trigger. Slowly tighten the tension until you feel a fair bit of resistance but not so much that it starts bending the wire. This way if something gets struck at the tip, the wire will slip in the rollers instead of "bird nesting" at the rollers.


It certainly can and even if the wire is not deformed enough by flattening to cause problems it can still have the teeth imprints of the rollers impressed into it causing rough feeding.

Also I would like to point out a safety tip here, it's been mentioned before but worth saying aging. You point out the correct way to set the tension by holding the wire tip against something SOLID but all too often the advice (not necessarily here, I am talking about advice from everywhere) is to hold your hand over the end of the wire and run the wire against your welding glove- DON"T! I have seen people get hurt doing this and one incident stands out, one of the welders in my shop did that and the wire went right through that glove then into his hand where it hit one of the bones in his hand and curled the wire! This injury required a surgeon to remove the wire and the guy was off work for over a month, this was by far the worst incident but it did happen before with just a serious puncture wound. Seems strange at first it could do this but not when considering the fact that sometimes the end of that wire can be as sharp as a needle. Most of the time when the weld is stooped the wire will form a ball on the end where the molten metal cools but not always, sometimes that ball will drop off before solidifying and the end of the wire will be left with a point that is unbelievably sharp. This point will pass right through a Leather welding glove with little resistance then the rest can just be imagined so it's obviously a dangerous thing to do. Again, the correct way is the way you described so I am not taking issue with your recommendation I am just taking this opportunity to point out this dangerous and all too common practice.
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Old 02-07-2012, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
It certainly can and even if the wire is not deformed enough by flattening to cause problems it can still have the teeth imprints of the rollers impressed into it causing rough feeding.

Also I would like to point out a safety tip here, it's been mentioned before but worth saying aging. You point out the correct way to set the tension by holding the wire tip against something SOLID but all too often the advice (not necessarily here, I am talking about advice from everywhere) is to hold your hand over the end of the wire and run the wire against your welding glove- DON"T! I have seen people get hurt doing this and one incident stands out, one of the welders in my shop did that and the wire went right through that glove then into his hand where it hit one of the bones in his hand and curled the wire! This injury required a surgeon to remove the wire and the guy was off work for over a month, this was by far the worst incident but it did happen before with just a serious puncture wound. Seems strange at first it could do this but not when considering the fact that sometimes the end of that wire can be as sharp as a needle. Most of the time when the weld is stooped the wire will form a ball on the end where the molten metal cools but not always, sometimes that ball will drop off before solidifying and the end of the wire will be left with a point that is unbelievably sharp. This point will pass right through a Leather welding glove with little resistance then the rest can just be imagined so it's obviously a dangerous thing to do. Again, the correct way is the way you described so I am not taking issue with your recommendation I am just taking this opportunity to point out this dangerous and all too common practice.
That is good advice about NOT using your hand and I should have been more descriptive there. My thought about "solid" is something like a block of wood. Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 02-07-2012, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
It certainly can and even if the wire is not deformed enough by flattening to cause problems it can still have the teeth imprints of the rollers impressed into it causing rough feeding.

Also I would like to point out a safety tip here, it's been mentioned before but worth saying aging. You point out the correct way to set the tension by holding the wire tip against something SOLID but all too often the advice (not necessarily here, I am talking about advice from everywhere) is to hold your hand over the end of the wire and run the wire against your welding glove- DON"T! I have seen people get hurt doing this and one incident stands out, one of the welders in my shop did that and the wire went right through that glove then into his hand where it hit one of the bones in his hand and curled the wire! This injury required a surgeon to remove the wire and the guy was off work for over a month, this was by far the worst incident but it did happen before with just a serious puncture wound. Seems strange at first it could do this but not when considering the fact that sometimes the end of that wire can be as sharp as a needle. Most of the time when the weld is stooped the wire will form a ball on the end where the molten metal cools but not always, sometimes that ball will drop off before solidifying and the end of the wire will be left with a point that is unbelievably sharp. This point will pass right through a Leather welding glove with little resistance then the rest can just be imagined so it's obviously a dangerous thing to do. Again, the correct way is the way you described so I am not taking issue with your recommendation I am just taking this opportunity to point out this dangerous and all too common practice.
yikes
I use the floor

I believe the problem is internal electronics
we will find out, it has been sent away
I still had 8 mo. left on a 3yr warranty--so its gone
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