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Old 07-31-2003, 03:05 AM
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Red face what to expect.....sbc tunnel ram?

Ok, I am wanting to try some different parts on my sbc and a buddy of mine is wiling to make this trade: my 650 cfm edelbrock (1406) carb, and a Weiand dual plane manifold for a new 600 or 650 cfm holley double pumper and a holley strip dominator manifold. My 350 is stock with hooker comp headers, a 270H magnum cam, HEI, K&N and GM 52 heads with 3988839 on them (stock). the block is out of a 72 pickup. I have a TH350 with shift kit, 2400 stall converter and 3.08's in the rear. Will I most likely have fun with this new combo, or hate it? I also have 2 1/4 dual exhaust with glass packs. He said if I like it, I'll owe him $200 bucks. What's your opinion?

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Old 07-31-2003, 03:49 AM
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Keep what you have and put the $200 towards some rear gears in the 3.70-1 range. You will be much more satisfied!
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Old 07-31-2003, 04:31 AM
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best advice you will ever receive. gears,gears, and more gears
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Old 07-31-2003, 05:39 AM
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Double pumper, single plane intake, basically stock engine,3:08 gears= NO WAY, you will have a gas guzzling,plug eating, TURD!
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Old 07-31-2003, 06:04 AM
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I really wanted to try that manifold, but sounds like it's not a good idea. I'm definately going to swap carburetors though. Does anyone think that would at least be a good idea?
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Old 07-31-2003, 08:55 AM
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If it were me I'd keep the intake you got.Definitly get rid of the the Edelbrock for the Holley.You'll lose gas milage with the DP but you'll have a Holley,which in my opinion is the most eisily tuned carb on the planet.
And get some gears in the 3.55-3.73range to put your engine more in its power range for the cam you got.
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Old 07-31-2003, 09:47 AM
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I have 3 ideas for you! They are:

1. NEW GEARS!
2. NEW GEARS!
3. NEW GEARS!

AND the ranges that EVERYBODY is telling you is correct 3:50 to 3:73!

Remember you asked! Good Luck! ...Mark
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Old 07-31-2003, 12:27 PM
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Cool

howziit guy!

pull your differential cover, and count your teeth. from the info you'd given in another post, your actual gear ratio is somewhere between 3.25 to 3.48:1

JMO, i'd keep your combo, and buy a set of ET STREETS or drag radials, if that's where you'd be racing.
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Old 08-01-2003, 12:35 AM
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Ok, here's what I'm faced with. Gears are definately on my agenda, but only after I am positive as to what rear end I have. It's definately a 8.5 10bolt, by looking at the differential case. I havn't got to check the gears, and from the occasional burnout and takeoff, it either dosn't have limited slip, or it dosn't work anymore. The only reason I'm all giddy over this new combo is simply because, I get to try it out for free, it's readily available right now, and well....it's something different. But I got thrown a curve ball today. I WAS going to give him my intake and carb, and he was going to give me his carb and the Strip dominator off his brother's 383. His brother was going to give up Strip dominator, use my carb with his matching carb, and put use my buddies edelbrock tunnel ram. Anybody tracking so far? Well today, his brother decided that he didn't want the tunnel ram, so I don't get the strip dominator (due to the advice I've recieved, it's no big deal). So, if I'm going to get to try out anything new, it's going to be the tunnel ram. Now, I've heard that these are a little more tuneable than the single plane high rises, but I am wondering once again what you guys think. Will the tunnel ram also turn my engine into a "gas guzzling, plug fouling turd" Or will it be a bit more reasonable, not to mention cool looking. I have the choice of finding another 1406 carb, or using two of his 600cfm holleys (not double pumpers) Thanks again for all the great opinions. I also have a gear question in the appropriate forum for anyone that's interested.
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Old 08-01-2003, 01:07 AM
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Jack up the rear, Pull the Diff cover, rotate the ring gear until you see stampings on it with the numbers such as 41 11 divide the 2 and you have the ratio, 41 Divided by 11 = 3.73
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Old 08-01-2003, 01:47 AM
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JMO...

the tunnel ram will be MUCH harder to tune than the single plane...ESPECIALLY with one edelbrock carb and one HOLLEY carb.

BTW, this is ANOTHER soggy mismatch, only more expensive.

FWIW, two holley 390cfm carbs MIGHT work well on the tunnel ram, but not worth the effort. you're looking at more junk, that's not gonna work for ya.

i KNOW you wanna tinker with your car. try a higher stall convertor AND trans cooler, play with your timing, fab a cheap ram-air system, install an electric fan. install an X-pipe/H-pipe. hunt down a cheap 12-bolt, with gears and posi.

BUY BETTER HEADS!
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Old 08-01-2003, 02:13 AM
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no, no, I will either find another edelbrock identical to mine, or use the two holley 600cfm's that he already has. Never even considered using two different carbs. I recently bought a TCI breakaway 2400-2800 stall converter, and have a tranny cooler, and my car currently launches great, (that's why I havn't been too worried about gears yet.) Maybe I just don't know what 3.73's are like because I havn't had much experience with performance cars( the nova is my 2nd vehicle, and first project), but I have up until this point simply assumed that I have 3.08's. I also have a new 2in. cowl hood, steel, with an actual sealed cowl understructure for ram air directly into the air cleaner. My "buddy" is actually an older guy who has been racing high HP vehicles, too include drag bikes, for MANY years. I am only 20 and still learning. He currently has a 9sec. 70 camaro with a 6-71 supercharger and N20 on a 400sbc. I trust his judgement, and he swears that he can tune this setup to be an enjoyable ride. I also full heartedly trust the judgment of this board, due to the extensive research I've done on this site, and help that I have received. I simply wanted to know what kind of compromises in power range I would experience, and how it would probably feel to drive on the freeway, from light to light etc. I know that this tunnel ram has to have some potential with my engine, if tuned right. I also plan to add better heads and parts every pay check, as I've been doing since I bought the car last OCT. and don't want to wish I had tried the tunnel ram months down the road when there isn't one anywhere in my vicinity that can be "tested" for free. I'm considering getting it and buying parts to accomodate it down the road. Ok, I hope my intentions are clearer then before. I am going to try it, because if I don't like it I don't have to buy it, I just wanted to know what to expect, because I'm anticipating tinkering with my car too much.

By the way, what kind of thing does an engine need to work with a tunnel ram, or single plane high rise? Is my cam too small, I know i need better flowing heads, probably higher compression. Everyone has told me my engine won't run well with it, but what kind of things should I look at? Just trying too accquire some new knowledge, sorry for the long post.
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Old 08-01-2003, 02:50 AM
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not meaning to flame you, my friend. just trying to match your combo.

if you have a yearning to try either the single-plane or tunnels, by all means go for it. the biggest danger is running the carb(s) way too rich, having raw gas wash into the cylinders, down into your oil pan, thinning out the oil...and ruining your bearings or scoring your cylinders.

your post should read "SHOULD I DO IT?"...instead.
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Old 08-01-2003, 03:01 AM
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gotchya! advice taken.....I knew I didn't have things worded right, and I did feel like I was getting flamed a bit, but I do want opinions regardless of how I perceive them, and I understand that I don't know much, and get a lot fancy visions of being able to do an exotic engine build. I just like to hear a tiny bit of positive along with alot of negative. So, is there any hope for this tunnel ram......or should I say potential. What sort of upgrades should I be prepared for, in order to make this work as a strong small block?
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Old 08-01-2003, 03:47 AM
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your ride and your money adrenaline, but you have to remember when fooling with dual quads, 2 600 holley`s = 1200 CFM on a mild 350? more than slightly over carbed. a tunnel ram is open plane, so each cylinder is drawing off the entire mass of the carb, so at cruise, it`ll be drawing off 4 barrells, and 8 at WOT. if the carbs are vacuum secondary, it`s a real good chance the rear carbs secondary`s won`t open, as we ran into this same problem when we tried a tunnel ram on a 400 SBC with a 244 duration cam, dart II heads, headers, 11:1 compression, 3.73 gears in a 73 Nova. we later switched over to a Weiand Xcellerator and a single 850 Holley and the car ET`d much quicker, so it goes to show 2 carbs with less CFM is acceptable. Tunnel rams work great on drag cars with big valves, monster lift cams, and revving to 9 grand RPM`s, but not on a street machine. you`ll have to dump your HEI as it`s too big around to use with a tunnel ram. lastly, looking cool don`t mean a damn thing, when the guy beside you blows your doors off with a beater and a 350 sb. quick story for ya, friend of mine has a 82 cutlass supreme, with a 350, ported 305 heads, stock pistons, edelbrock performer cam, HEI with MSD 6AL box, weiand stealth intake, 650 Demon DP carb, 3.73 gears with posi, headers and flowmasters. he went to the cruise night at Sonics to check out the cars, he ran into a fellow he knew slightly, that had a 65 chevy pickup, mini tubbed, 350 with tunnel ram and 2 600 holley`s, MSD ignition, camel hump heads with 2.02 valves, big crane cam, 3000 stall converter, 4.11 gears with Posi, headers and flowmasters, they got to talking and the guy was egging on how fast the truck was, my friend, never being one to turn down a challenge, and close a braggerts mouth, said he would run him, they both lived within 3 miles of the other, so they left for out here in the country, got on a back road with a mile long straightaway at 12 at night, lined up and ran 4 times in the 8th mile, all 4 times my friends cutlass out ran him by a car lenth, the guy couldn`t understand how that cutlass with so little mods could outrun him, the answer is simple, the cutlass used low end torque, not horsepower as the tunnel ram used, it`s torque that moves all that sheet metal around, not horsepower. if the guy would have used 2 450 holley`s, or used a single carb and intake, it would have been a different story, but what the guy learned was looking cool didn`t mean anything after word got out he got out ran by a beater cutlass.
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