mixed ford 351w/351c mix manifolds,400 crank - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2004, 10:21 PM
4 Jaw Chuck's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Age: 46
Posts: 4,950
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 87 Times in 71 Posts
I would look for a Cleveland block and go from there, they are far superior in many respects except for the oiling system which can be handled with a set of restrictors. I doubt you will be able to turn a Windsor at an rpm where you could use the 4V heads. Windsors have crap rods and generally won't tolerate 6500+rpm for too long, especially the 351's. I should know, I blew two 351W's in one year turning 7200 rpm at the shift. That was with the good C9OE rods too, I have a nice set of twisted paperweights from both those engines when the rods exited stage left. The Clevelands will turn that kind of rpm all day long and not complain.

I have had good luck turning 302's at 6800 rpm however, the smaller stroke makes the loads lighter and the port sizes better suit the smaller cubes. Definetly get the 2V heads if your going to do this, the 4v heads are only good for 8000+ rpm. The ports are way too big for anything but all out unlimited dragging. Talk to some of the Aussie guys on the board, down under there were a lot more Clevelands built and the rodders there know the ins and outs of the engine better than us North Americans.

Imagine 351C's as abundant in the wreckers as 302's are here.

    Advertisement
__________________
Outlawed tunes from outlawed pipes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2004, 12:23 AM
rifraf's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: washington
Posts: 576
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I guess nobody is seeing what I am,a 396 chev edelbrock performer oval head has 290cc intake runners,not that radical of head. I have to assume this is partly the shape and the cubes that make it behave in such a way. Honestly,cleveland heads look so much like big block chev heads its amazing to me,next,its a 6000 tops motor,and it will have good rods and pistons. Call me crazy,but Ill bet it runs a lot like a 396 when its finished,if it can be figured out,I dont want a clevland because of weight,oiling, and I want the inexpensive 400 stroke crank,not to mention factory roller cam,it wont have any windsor swinging assembly. Off to the land of ozz,to see the wizard of course.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2004, 02:40 PM
Pony's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Lynnwood, Wa.
Age: 67
Posts: 721
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Huge intake runners are only good if your building an all out drag/road racing engine or supercharging/turbo-charging an engine. Street engines just can't create the vacuum at lower RPM's necessary to use the big ports. As for the windsor motors, the Ford racers in NASCAR and NHRA do ok with them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2004, 07:24 PM
rifraf's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: washington
Posts: 576
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well,I dont think a 400 cube windsor would act like a 351 cube one first off,and second,huge intake runners do work on 400 cube engines. 396/402 engines flat stomp #$%&^! for thier displacment. The block is a dumb piece of metal that doesnt know what famly its from,it just has to holds it all together. If those heads were to much for a 302 on the street but fair with a 49 cube increase,351c,dont you think another 49 would make a change for the better? The Boss 302 and the 351c came on differantly,I think another 49 would be perfect for hot street. Maybe thats why Ive always liked building off the wall combos,some have turnd out incredibly fast. I need to talk to someone who has tried this I guess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2004, 10:36 PM
4 Jaw Chuck's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Age: 46
Posts: 4,950
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 87 Times in 71 Posts
With the right parts Rifraf of course it would run...likely very well. The problem as I see it is for all the effort you would be investing in this engine you want to tie it all together with a 351M/400 cast Ford crank, custom built rods/pistons+cam and then turn this combo to some very high rpm to generate the impressive HP numbers. From a cost standpoint it isn't very practical.

Possible yes...practical no.

Those Windsors you see running in Nascar have little in common with the 351W you get out of a junker at the wrecker. For the money you could get a nice rebuildable/durable 429 SCJ or 428CJ and get likely the same numbers and still have a very desirable/sellable combination.

Of course...it is your money.
__________________
Outlawed tunes from outlawed pipes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2004, 08:48 AM
rifraf's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: washington
Posts: 576
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I absolutely agree a 429/460 would be the cheapest power,but my friend did one up like that and he had a lot of front end issues,tires wore goofy and fast,parts wore out,etc,but it was quite a rush,maybe a aluminum head and intake diet would cure that problem,Id just like a good conversation piece when its done,Im only hoping to make 375/425 hp. My hope was that I could find non-exotic parts to make this idea come together,aside from the intake of course.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2004, 01:55 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
clevors are not supposed to be all that they are cracked up to be nowadays. with better aftermarket heads available for windsors.



http://www.wrljet.com/engines/cleveland.html



I have the book, sbf on a budget. And they show a build up for a 351c with the open chamber 2v heads. they were able to build and dyno 405 fwhp. using flat tops, and a beefy cam, intake, and stock heads.

i had a couple of links for the 400/windsor/clevelandheads...

but I cant seem to find it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2004, 07:30 AM
rifraf's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: washington
Posts: 576
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thank you,all the info I can gather is a big help. If ya run across em,let me know,something different would be cool to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2004, 11:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I forgot to mention last night, that you will have a pita trying to find headers. cleveland heads are huge, and the exhaust ports are bigger so windsor headers will not bolt up. you could get away with shorties I guess.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33617
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2004, 07:10 PM
rifraf's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: washington
Posts: 576
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Very very interesting, I can tig weld up a set of headers if need be,I like it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2004, 01:16 AM
aka Duke of URL
 
Last wiki edit: Finding vacuum leaks Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,821
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


-Price Motorsport Engineering-
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2004, 08:24 AM
rifraf's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: washington
Posts: 576
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Very cool,thanks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2004, 06:38 PM
pmeisel's Avatar
Glad the Jeep is on the road
 
Last wiki edit: How to identify a Ford V8
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Meridian MS & Vermilion Ohio
Age: 58
Posts: 814
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally posted by rifraf
Are you sure? I was told by a guy who eats,sleeps,and breaths ford boss 302s that the Aussie Cleavland 4v was the same casting,just machined different for the intake? But even if so,Ill have 400+ cubes,and the same bore as a Cleavland,the Cleavland was hot,a little doggy down low,but once wound up,look out! I would think this would alleviate the need for a high lift valve train,you just don't want to see a low dollar ford small block eat up a high buck chev,do ya.
There are a lot of 302/351 twists out there, but the guys I know - from the Cleveland Ford Engine Plant -- usually start with 351W or 302 stuff cause of availability. The old Cleveland engines were neat and if you want one for nostalgia that's great but another build up might be easier
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-25-2004, 07:53 PM
rifraf's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: washington
Posts: 576
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That is what I want to do,a Windsor block,400 m crank and Cleavland heads.Im definitely not after nostalgia,not in a newer mustang. Abstract is the word of the hour.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2004, 02:59 AM
aka Duke of URL
 
Last wiki edit: Finding vacuum leaks Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 4,821
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thumbs up

-Technical Information-

-Worked Aussie Heads-

-Source (TRW) of Clevor Pistons-

-Ultimate Cleveland Cylinder Head-

I see nothing wrong in your build myself. Just plan it to detail and go about it the cheapest way possible. Work with the cam manufacturer for the complete build and you will be happy with the results.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodding Basics posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.