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Old 01-04-2004, 10:58 AM
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mixed ford 351w/351c mix manifolds,400 crank

Im thinking of doing a motor for my 88 mustang,Ive seen people put the Aussie Cleveland heads on 302s,like a wannabee boss,and Ive also seen guys put 400m cranks in windsors but didn't pay that much attention. My mess would be,351w block,400m crank and 4 barrel 351c heads. Who makes the intake to match it up,and what are some reasonably priced rod/piston combo's. Any other tips?

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Old 01-04-2004, 11:51 AM
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The intake your looking for was called the "Street Boss" and the track version was called "Track Boss", near as I can find they have been out of business for some time but I managed to find this page which gives updated contact info for the original mfg.

http://www.darkhorseracing.net/clevor_headmod.htm
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Old 01-04-2004, 12:00 PM
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Im gettin closer, thanks allot.
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Old 01-04-2004, 07:34 PM
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The 4 barrel heads are way too much. That thing will be a dog below 5,000 RPMs. The 2 barrel heads are even too big.

See if you can trade someone for 2 barrel heads.
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Old 01-05-2004, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by lluciano77
The 4 barrel heads are way too much. That thing will be a dog below 5,000 RPMs. The 2 barrel heads are even too big.

See if you can trade someone for 2 barrel heads.
Thats not exactly true. Have you ever driven a 4bbl cleveland? I've seen a bone stock 4v cleveland smoke its tires right down the street.
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Old 01-05-2004, 03:02 AM
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There are several good books on Ford engines and what fits what. Cleveland's are pretty much all there own. There are a few parts that will interchange but not much. They're good motors but didn't stay in production very long, so speed equipment is sadly lacking. The Windsor family of engines is still in production with lots or after market and factory support. The W- motors came in your Mustang, stick with the W- motor you'll be a lot better in the long run.
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Old 01-05-2004, 07:24 AM
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Well,my thinking is that my old mustang I used to drive had a 4vc,It really was pretty fast looking back,for a bone stock car,and I figured with 50 plus cubes it could only help the torque,plus knowing the 351w block came in my body style as an option,fit up,excluding the headers,should be simple,not to mention the whole package should be considerably lighter than my old 70 mustang. My idea was I would have something that behaved similar to a 396 chev in a small block windsor package,after all the heads even look like a big block chev ripoff,I have heard 4v heads are to much for a 302 and even a lot for a 351,but 400+? Im still not sure. Keep in mind my driving tasts are high spirited,Im looking to come on about 3000/3500.Those heads are so tempting,they look like they would outflow about any smallblock head Ive ever seen,including atermarket.
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Old 01-05-2004, 07:02 PM
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You want big? how about a bolt in 427 cu in Windsor with aluminum heads w/2.05 intake 1.60 exhaust and 210cc intake runners? Anyway, PAW has a lot of 351W performance equipment mild to wild and YES that is a real combo. Check them out, there 1170 page catalog is well worth the price.

ps. I'm not down on the Clevland series engines as I have one in my 1953 Ford Sedan (see gallary) I just feel the 351W would be a better choice for your project.
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Old 01-05-2004, 07:08 PM
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You want bigger? Here is the Bill Mitchell 454 small block, read 'em and weep:
http://www.theengineshop.com/newstuff8.shtml
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Old 01-05-2004, 07:16 PM
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Well,that would definitely be the easy path but I,not being rich,and having access to a machine shop,figured I could make a low dollar monster,I do think it would be a fast windsor.
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Old 01-05-2004, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by fiscus
Thats not exactly true. Have you ever driven a 4bbl cleveland? I've seen a bone stock 4v cleveland smoke its tires right down the street.
4 barrel heads on a Cleveland is cool, but 4 barrel heads on a Windsor block isn't. There is a big difference there. The Boss 302 which had basically 2 barrel Cleveland heads was short lived because it was found to be too much head.
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Old 01-05-2004, 08:31 PM
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Are you sure? I was told by a guy who eats,sleeps,and breaths ford boss 302s that the Aussie Cleavland 4v was the same casting,just machined different for the intake? But even if so,Ill have 400+ cubes,and the same bore as a Cleavland,the Cleavland was hot,a little doggy down low,but once wound up,look out! I would think this would alleviate the need for a high lift valve train,you just don't want to see a low dollar ford small block eat up a high buck chev,do ya.
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Old 01-05-2004, 08:36 PM
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Putting cleveland heads on a windsor probably won't be low-dollar, becuase you'll have a tough time finding headers and an intake manifold to fit, at a decent price. Also because of the canted-valve arrangenment cleveland heads use you'd have to machine your pistons specialy for them. It would probably be easier to use the 4v cleveland heads on a 351c or a 400. If you want to use a 351w you're best off finding heads specifically for it, there are plenty out there.

and to luciano77, 4v heads would act very similarly with a 351w bottom end as with a 351c bottom end; 351 cubes is 351 cubes.
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Old 01-05-2004, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rifraf
Are you sure? I was told by a guy who eats,sleeps,and breaths ford boss 302s that the Aussie Cleavland 4v was the same casting,just machined different for the intake? But even if so,Ill have 400+ cubes,and the same bore as a Cleavland,the Cleavland was hot,a little doggy down low,but once wound up,look out! I would think this would alleviate the need for a high lift valve train,you just don't want to see a low dollar ford small block eat up a high buck chev,do ya.
If I wanted to see that I would race my '73 Camaro against my '61 Ranchero. And just for kicks I would run them both against my '73 Challenger. If it don't look like rice, it must be nice.

Quote:
Originally posted by fiscus
Putting cleveland heads on a windsor probably won't be low-dollar, becuase you'll have a tough time finding headers and an intake manifold to fit, at a decent price. Also because of the canted-valve arrangenment cleveland heads use you'd have to machine your pistons specialy for them. It would probably be easier to use the 4v cleveland heads on a 351c or a 400. If you want to use a 351w you're best off finding heads specifically for it, there are plenty out there.

and to luciano77, 4v heads would act very similarly with a 351w bottom end as with a 351c bottom end; 351 cubes is 351 cubes.
Cubes don't always act the same. Take the Pontiac 400 versus the Chevy 400. The Pontiac has a 6.625 rod length. The Chevy has a 5.565 rod length. The Pontiac has way more torque all things being as equal as possible. The Pontiac has, and can handle bigger valves and heads.

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Old 01-05-2004, 09:02 PM
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Well,I don't know yet,Im hoping I can find a flat top out of a 351/400 m motor and a rod to tie it together because they also had canted valves,I now fit and weld pipe by trade,and still have many connections in machine shops,so the headers and the carving come cheap to me. I haven't done the math because I dont know what pistons Ill use,but it should be around 10.5 to 1.Really,it looks like a 396 in a small package,to me anyway. The manifold rods,and pistons will be the hurdles.RIGHT ON 77!
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