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Old 05-06-2013, 10:54 PM
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Model A frame boxing

A guys asked me if I could box a model a frame for him and he wanted to know what I would charge. I told him I would get back to him after I see what the steel welding wire and gas was going for but really to find a price.

The guy said he would bring it to me rolling frame ready to box. I read on a older post on here that a certified welder would do this job for $500 I don't know how old the post was but is $500 about the right price?

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Old 05-07-2013, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mafiacustomz View Post
A guys asked me if I could box a model a frame for him and he wanted to know what I would charge. I told him I would get back to him after I see what the steel welding wire and gas was going for but really to find a price.

The guy said he would bring it to me rolling frame ready to box. I read on a older post on here that a certified welder would do this job for $500 I don't know how old the post was but is $500 about the right price?
Find out the price of a 4x8 sheet of 10 ga steel, then having it sheared to about 4 to 5 inches wide, figure an absolute minimum of 8 hours time for fitting and MIG welding at whatever is a fair $/hour locally. Fitting an 'A' chassis is relatively easy so that's a plus. One thing you can't factor in without a good inspection of that ancient 82-85 year old frame is crack repair - and they do crack at cross members and radiating from the many holes. Also, does the owner want those many holes filled? As far as being a rolling chassis - that is NOT a plus as you will have to work around bolts, springs, axles and whatever other parts he has installed.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:40 PM
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I was going to do the plate kits to make it faster. He wants to keep it rolling chassis im guessing so he don't have to put all that back on IDK I might have him just bring frame. I don't know about the frame holes ether im guessing its just welding in plates.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mafiacustomz View Post
I was going to do the plate kits to make it faster. He wants to keep it rolling chassis im guessing so he don't have to put all that back on IDK I might have him just bring frame. I don't know about the frame holes ether im guessing its just welding in plates.
Why not let the customer buy the boxing kit or raw materials then all you have to do is charge him an hourly rate. It also saves you from getting 'stiffed' if he doesn't show up. Be really careful with cracks and a tweaked or twisted frame and make sure that he understands that repairs might cost him more bucks. An 'A' frame is pretty light duty compared to later vehicles and in those 80 plus years could have suffered a lot of pain.

I guess I've been 'had' enough times that deals that cost me a dollar outlay before a project makes me cautious regardless of how great a guy might be otherwise
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:26 PM
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A boxing.

I just bought a good A frame that has the corect Vin for my 28 roadster body, then found another one that has SBC motor mount brackets and plates where the split wishbones were fastened, It has a little twist but I grabed one end and the seller grabbed the other and we could twist it back . Both could use new front crosmembers. I have a double 14 ft mast out of a high stack forklift I will seperate into two pieces, drag into the shop to use for a Frame jig, It is very heavy and rigid. and you probably know to skip weld so you don't put a lot of heat in one spot and start warping it.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:53 PM
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Much easier to have a bare frame, You will have to be able to flip it over,, Also be very careful if you never done this before,,, I seen some people really mess up a frame by not knowing how to do this the right way.... I wouldn't do it for $500.00 unless he bring's you everything,,$500,00 For just fitting and welding, And grinding,, That's cheap..
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Old 05-07-2013, 06:32 PM
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If you have never done 1, get ready for a learning lesson.
#1 clamp it to a surface table or a jig table
#2 only do it if you use #1
That 80+ year old metal will react to heat differant than new metal.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:34 PM
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I was planning on welding some angle iron on top and bottom of the front middle and back of the frame so it don't twist. I am not going to run full beads only 2-3 inch small beads and really take my time.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mafiacustomz View Post
I was planning on welding some angle iron on top and bottom of the front middle and back of the frame so it don't twist. I am not going to run full beads only 2-3 inch small beads and really take my time.
I guess you didn't read #1 and 2 above !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:18 PM
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Ya I did but if you don't have a table that big I cant so I skip it. Im sure a lot of other people plate frame without a jig with no problems. If I go slow and keep it cool I wont have to use a jig or a table.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:26 PM
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Skipping around with a LOT of time between welds, JUST skipping around can still get you into a lot of trouble! You need to let them cool, and NOT force cool, let them cool naturally.

Brian
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:07 PM
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I know not to quench my welds ive been welding for about 3 years now and no I don't know everything about welding but I do know the dos and donts. Im sure I can do it with no warping and quality welds.
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Old 05-08-2013, 05:06 PM
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These ideas are tossed out there, we don't know all of your abilities but to toss ideas out there, is just that, tossing ideas out there. There are things you know because it bit you and this is one of those. The first frame I boxed, after a heck of a lot longer than 3 years, I knocked out of square. I did everything I thought I needed to do, simply welded it a bit too fast. I'm not talking about running around it like I was in a race, I gave it plenty of time (or so I thought) too cool between welds and when I was all done it was diamonded and twisted! Not much, but it was NOT "square" as it was when I started. I had to cut cross members free and push it all straight and re-weld it.

Just a warning that's all.

Brian
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:55 PM
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ya im not shooting any ones ideas down I can only work with what I have.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:01 PM
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Another thing you might consider, is finding out how he plans to attach the body to the frame once it's boxed.
He may (after you've started the boxing) decide that he want's nutplates welded to the bottom of the top flange, rather than drill through both flanges and use long bolts.

The model A frame is a pretty simple affair, but has 3 crossmembers rivited in place. There are two ways to work around those. #1 is to "work around those". #2 is to remove the crossmembers, box the rails, then re-install the crossmembers. Most folks leave the front and rear crossmembers, remove the center one, and box the rails, then re-install the center crossmember.
Main thing to guard against (been said before) is warpage.
Another thing to think about is will there ever be a hood on this car, or fenders and runnin' boards.
Those things have parts that bolt to the frame.
No way I'd buy the material, and box a frame for $500. I'd think about it for $800 and you buy th' stuff.
That's for a "naked" frame. If it's rolling when I get it, it'll be rolling when it leaves, but add another $500-800 to R&R all th' stuff.
And yes you'll run into cracks and splits at bolt holes, and mabe even a few busted rivits. especially at the front cross member.
And yes he'll come by from time to time to "check on progress", (and add shock mounts, hairpins, split wishbones, track bars, etc.) so you need to be ready with the "$100 button" on yer calculator. and mash it every time he sez "as long as yer weldin' on it....."
But generally, to box a Model A frame I look at the frame first, and get the job for $1000+.
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