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Old 09-03-2006, 06:44 PM
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Model T "Coil Over" Rear Shocks Help Needed

I have two "Coil Over Shocks" used for the rear suspension on my 27 T Touring project. I have a problem, and would like your suggestions on fixing it before I proceed.
I purchased the 27' as someone else's project, and it included two sets of the coil over shocks. I installed them yesterday and thought it sat a little high unloaded. I climbed into the front seat to enjoy a cold beer, and think about what it will be like to actually drive it someday.. The problem I have is the Body will easily lean several inches from side to side with my weight (190lbs) because of the rear susp.
Any idea's on how I can fix this??? I would expect it to be very firm.


Thanks,

Bud bcountryman@cox.net
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Old 09-03-2006, 10:10 PM
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I went with Carrera coilovers on my project. Bought them from Speedway. Your springs may be to soft and too tall. Give Speedway a call, you will need to know the approximate weight of your vehicle when finished and the weight that will be riding over the rear axle.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/Product.htm
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Old 09-03-2006, 11:10 PM
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First thing I would do is to relocate the upper mounts so the spring are vertical..try it again and you may find you need some stiffer springs..

Hopefully the shocks are adjustable so you can match shock valving to the spring rate..Takes a bit of twiddling to get the suspension right..you will not know completely until you can drive the car..

Sam
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Old 09-04-2006, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
First thing I would do is to relocate the upper mounts so the spring are vertical..try it again and you may find you need some stiffer springs..

Hopefully the shocks are adjustable so you can match shock valving to the spring rate..Takes a bit of twiddling to get the suspension right..you will not know completely until you can drive the car..

Sam
What Onemoretime says is correct, If your car is fitted with say 250lb springs, they will only give 250lb support in the verticle position. If you angle the struts, then you must devide the pound rate by the cosine of the angle to find your spring rate.

The angle your struts are set at could bring the 250lb spring rate down to only 175lb or less, hence the lean under weight. So you have a choice, go verticle or stay angled and fit much heavier springs to compensate for the angle.
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Old 09-04-2006, 06:35 AM
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Several inches? Those must be very low rate springs. Since you already have them mounted, I wouldn't bother changing the mounts. Doesn't hurt to have them angled and most people like the look. Looks like they're at about 30 degrees, so if you had 250 pound per inch springs (which would probably be a pretty good starting point), the effective rate would be the cosine of 30 degrees times 250 or 217 pounds per inch. Still not bad on such a light car.

You'll need a Panhard, of course.
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Old 09-04-2006, 06:49 AM
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Before you get hurt, I had to jump in here. The coilovers you have on the car are not really coilovers, they are overload shocks. Someone has gone the cheap route and gone to Autozone and bought these. They are not made to soley support a car, but simply to suppliment existing springs, like leaf springs.

The angle is perfect, on a street driven car you want them angled (drag cars go straight up and down, but you want some angle on a street driven car for lateral support.......helps control side sway) What you need to do is go to SPeedway, or someplace else and order a proper set of coilovers and toss these out, They are in no way made to support an automobile, and will break and get you hurt or killed.

I know I said I would never post again, but I just couldn't stand to see you heading down a path that might get you injured or worse.


Don


PS: Yes, you also need a panhard bar or watts linkage to control side to side motion. Ask the tech guys at the place you buy them for assistance in the spring rate, etc. Buying someone elses unfinished project requires that you really go over every part of the car to undo some of the mickey mouse things he may have done. You are being smart in asking these questions.
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Old 09-04-2006, 07:43 AM
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Thanks for the Information....

Thats why I like this website so much, you guys always have so much information available...

I was afraid the shocks may have been wrong, now I see why I got two sets for free..

I do business with speedway, and will take your advice and contact them with my vehicle spec's to get the right product for my application.

Thanks again,

Bud
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Old 09-04-2006, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donsrods
...you want some angle on a street driven car for lateral support.......helps control side sway...

Don
Thanks, Don. You'd think one of us "experts" would have been smart enough to have figured out that "several inches" meant something other than normal coilovers.

I'm afraid, however, that your "side sway" comment is a popular misconception. The Panhard controls lateral motion of the axle assembly relative to the chassis (side sway). The shocks and springs are often angled in production cars for packaging reasons, but it's the Panhard (or control arms in an IRS) and the rates at the tire patches which determine what the chassis is going to do in a corner.

But, as I inferred in my earlier post, I like the looks of the angled coilovers.
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Old 09-04-2006, 08:20 AM
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Angled coilovers vs straight up and down are one of those controverial subjects that no one seems to have the correct/only answer to. I have just always leaned them in because that's the way I was taught, and if you look at virtually every commercially available hot rod chassis, they are all angled. So there must be something to it.

On my drag car I ran them straight, but primarily because the narrowed rear axle doesn't give you any room for angled mounting.

Would it hurt to mount them straight on the street? Probably not, but since he is already set up for angled, all he really needs to do is make sure the mounts are well done and put proper coilovers on the car, and the panhard or watts, and he will be fine.

Your points are well taken, though. Here is how I mounted them on my '39 Dodge. I would have gone a little steeper on the angle, but there was no room to do so.


Don
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Old 09-04-2006, 09:39 AM
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Follow up

Forgot to mention:

I am running a Four-Bar set up with a Panhard bar running from the drivers side of the frame to the rear diff.
This set up looks very sturdy and was purchased as a set (Not homemade)
Bolted it all together with grade 8.

I see several ad's for the Panhard bar being short or long... What are the pro's and con's to the length?

Bud
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Old 09-04-2006, 09:54 AM
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Don't know if I can clear up this angled coilover confusion or not, but I'm stupid enough to give it a try:

Suppose you replaced each of the angled coilovers with a horizontal coilover and a vertical coilover. If angling does anything for us, we're now free to play with any value of horizontal spring rate and thus simulate virtually any angle. But, the horizontal spring doesn't affect vertical forces at all! We can use any horizontal spring we like and the vertical rates at the tire patches remain the same. As you go through a corner, it is the couple generated by the vertical coilovers that will resist the couple generated by the inertial force acting through the center of gravity. Since the two horizontal coilovers have the same line of action, they cannot contribute any couple at all.

If I was a supplier of aftermarket chassis, I might have a couple of reasons for angling the coilovers. One would be that matter of the bottom line. If I don't angle them, someone is going to buy from a competitor because he angles them. Why risk loss of sales when it doesn't make any difference?

The other reason is that I might need the angle to get the proper shock absorber travel.

http://home.earthlink.net/~whshope
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Old 09-04-2006, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud's 27 T Touring
Forgot to mention:

I am running a Four-Bar set up with a Panhard bar running from the drivers side of the frame to the rear diff.
This set up looks very sturdy and was purchased as a set (Not homemade)
Bolted it all together with grade 8.

I see several ad's for the Panhard bar being short or long... What are the pro's and con's to the length?

Bud
As a general rule, you want the Panhard as long as possible, for this reduces lateral motion during full suspension travel. The exception to that "general rule" is the oval racer who will sometimes use a short Panhard to get a dynamic loading effect as he enters the corner. Personally, I think the long rod is always the answer, even on the oval car. The same turn entrance effects can be achieved by other means.
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Old 09-05-2006, 04:48 PM
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I am building my 3rd T bucket and have used these shocks on every one. with a 165lb spring and they are angled just like yours.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/Product.htm
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