Gonna be switching to a 4-speed, dont think there's much room under the floor for pedal mounting, and dont really like having clutch & brake reservoirs mounted outside on the firewall.....so I am left with finding a spot under the dash, have not looked yet, should there be some sort of brace under there to mount these?
('31 Model A Coupe hot rod)
Most likely, you will not have an adequate brace under the dash unless you install one. I believe you could build one easily enough by bending some tubing (one to two inch diameter) to closely match the shape of the inside of the cowl. Weld a flange on each end so that it can be bolted to the floor/frame rails. You can then mount your pedals and have something substantial to mount your steering column to as well.
Most likely, you will not have an adequate brace under the dash unless you install one. I believe you could build one easily enough by bending some tubing (one to two inch diameter) to closely match the shape of the inside of the cowl. Weld a flange on each end so that it can be bolted to the floor/frame rails. You can then mount your pedals and have something substantial to mount your steering column to as well.
On my T, I used a brace made of 1 1/2" x 0.120" wall square tubing, like an upside-down "U" and welded it to the frame. Stiff as a minister's dick and worked well.
I used a frame mount brake pedal from TCI on my Model A. I have also contemplated a 4-speed swap, they have a dual mount for use with a hydraulic clutch, see page 38 of their catalog http://www.totalcostinvolved.com/pdf/TCI_Full_Catalog_22.pdf
yup...just took a peek under the dash.....nothing there, column is supported by a bracket welded to top of the cowl, pretty sturdy there, but nothing for pedals to be mounted to.....man I hope I'm not STUCK with this A/T!
yes, its mounted to the frame, manual brakes, the pedal comes up through the floor practically underneath the steering column, a bit off to the right side, I dont see how a clutch pedal can fit on the left side of the column?
this is true...but the tranny's not the issue, its the lack of room between the frame and the steering column for the clutch pedal arm....
I am running Patriot outside headers/sidepipes, nothing underneath
That's the tuff part of doing this after the fact. During fabrication moving the column toward the center a little is no big shake. Doing it now pretty much sucks.
It's easy for me to say, but I think you can make this work. Did you look closely at the TCI photo above? The clutch pedal hugs the frame.
That's the tuff part of doing this after the fact. During fabrication moving the column toward the center a little is no big shake. Doing it now pretty much sucks.
Did you look closely at the TCI photo above? The clutch pedal hugs the frame.
yes I did...wish I had one to mock up or test fit, wonder if they'd lend one to me for that purpose? or buy one and be able to return? guess I'll call them tomorrow....thanks for all your input, maybe I;ll try figuring out how to post pics tomorrow to see if that helps anyone to see my delemma!
I have a reinforcing framework around the entire pass. compartment in my '31. Lots of 3/4 and 1" tubing, both round and square. There is not a bit of the dreaded Model A cowl shake or body flopping
You do run into a problem with a steering column - too low, no room for 3 pedals. Raise it higher, then exhaust manifolds get in the way and you can end up with more then three U-joints and an additional support bearing.
I have a reinforcing framework around the entire pass. compartment in my '31. Lots of 3/4 and 1" tubing, both round and square. There is not a bit of the dreaded Model A cowl shake or body flopping
One thing to note: 31ROC has a coupe. Cowl shake is a roadster thing, coupes and sedans don't exhibit this due to the inherent strength associated with the roof structure.
yes I did...wish I had one to mock up or test fit, wonder if they'd lend one to me for that purpose? or buy one and be able to return? guess I'll call them tomorrow....thanks for all your input, maybe I;ll try figuring out how to post pics tomorrow to see if that helps anyone to see my delemma!
Gas tank already gone....this car was near finished when I bought, now its time to make it mine.....
I will attempt taking some pics tonite and post them, so you pros out there will get my issues.....I REALLY appreciate everyone's input being a hotrod newbie....
I have seen an under the dash booster, pedal assembly complete with master cylinder. It mounts sideways and has a crazy mechanism that operated the push rod. I was going to use that myself on my 30 model a, then I decided to just buy a booster/master cylinder that is chrome and mount it on the firewall. Got to say it looks pretty cool next to the chrome engine. The pedal system i used is out of a late model mustang cobra. The pedal are real sporty looking, and the are real nice and tight so they fit rather nice. You can usually find them for about $150-$200. Cant beat it.
I will take some tonight and post. I had to remove everything yesterday so that I could fit the steering column in. Now it's time to cut the floor and put it all back together.
You might look at the setups that put pedal assembly and masters all under the dash. It takes a hose to fill the units with fluid, but they're compact. Might again take some heat to bend the pedals to fit your car.
Wilwood makes them, and Speedway has them in their catalog.
As far as room, you have it with these Kugal parts.
BUT - why the desire for a 4-5-6 speed manual? An auto will shift faster, be more reliable and the exterior parts are more easily located, i.e. under the floorboards. Yeah, I looked at running a 5 speed in mine, but after spending a bunch of time going through what you are now, said screw it!! A well built C4 will do everything necessary (TH-350 with a Chebbie). Very happy I did as trying to move size my size 12's attached to my 6'4" body to three pedals would have been not a good time for me at every stop. Yeah, a coupe has a little more room then a roadster, but not a heluva lot more. Today, and knowing what I know now and since I built from scratch tho using a TCI Stage lll chassis, would have extended the frame beyond the firewall a few inches then used a standard firewall as the 5" recessed version wouldn't be hurting my foot room.
Whatever - it IS your car and choice, albeit a difficult project
Thanks for your input...just cant stand automatics.....shifting is too much fun, dont care about speed one bit, just having fun.....gonna check out your 90 degree models...:thumbup:
Gotta agree with 31 ROC, having 3 pedals and rowing through the gears is a big part of the fun. :thumbup:
A lot of great information here. I still think the under the floor set-up is still your best option. A lot less fabrication and easier access.
Cut out the drivers side floor pan, install the pedals assembly, then install a new floor pan that fits around the pedals and that has access doors for the master cylinders. All this can be done in a fairly accessible area and it will be hidden once your done.
Here is a shot of my floor pan area for comparison. Old photo, that has been scanned, but thought it might be usefull:
if I can find a way to fit the dual pedal assembly under floor, I am thinking the pedals will have to pop up thru the floor "in front of the steering column" as opposed to on either side of it since there really is no room left of the column....is this reasonable?
Sorry i tried to link up the pics of my set up but I can not find the cord that plugs into my computer. Send me your cell phone number and I can forward them out of my phone. I have to say to everyone out there that is so pro automatic transmissions. If I have to explain to you why a hot rod needs a clutch then I guess you just wont get it. If you want a daily cruiser go buy a lincoln town car. In my set up I was able to shrink my tunnel and have room for the column and all three pedals. I used 2" angle and fabricated a support system for the pedal assembly that is welded to the firewall and the top of the cowl support bar on the outer edge of the inside of the cowl. I did a complete pull up on it and it could easily hold me and you up. I then attached a piece of angle to the front side and mounted my column drop. The hole thing was quite simple and you can not even see any of the pedal assembly or the mount bars. My car does not have a/c but there is plenty of space to incorporate one. I put a/c in my 38 chevy and it was a pain in the ***. I think I have used it twice.
They would work but I think they are costly and it will be much easier to mount an entire unit. I have driven cars with through the floor pedals and I simply do not like the feel of the clutch going through the floor. It's not natural. Believe me you wont have any problem mounting a unit up inside the cowl.
I'm watching this thread to see what you come up with. I hate automatics. I plan on putting a Muncie in my 31 Plymouth. When I got it someone already had some pedals sitting in the pile of parts. I think they might have come from a Japanese car or truck. I have 2 sets of 3rd Gen F body brake and clutch pedals with the brackets. I have not tried to put them in yet. If I can get the F body pedals to work then I can use a GM steering column and a manual brake master cylinder.
Right now, I'm waiting fir a few helpful people to get me dimensions on a bell housing and Muncie M20..... Once I know they will fit, I think I'm going to try the individual floor mounted pedal assemblies. The vendor says I can return within 30 days.....I assume I will just need to run both hydraulic lines from back of floor mounted reservoirs thru firewall or the floor......I am still open to all and any suggestions!
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