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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 01:40 AM
4 Jaw Chuck's Avatar
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Right Larry, moly rings are made of a chromium/molybdenum alloy with either a relieved center on the face filled with pure molybdenum or more recently they have been manufactured with a continuous face of vapor deposited pure molybdenum, this type ends up being the more durable of the two since the molybdenum ends up in a slightly different harder form due to the nature of the process. A plain ring made of chrome/moly would wear very quickly, it's tough not hard. The big advantage of course is the ring can be thinner with steel alloy construction.

Chrome rings are the more wear resistant of the types and are recommended if the usage will be in a dusty environment such as heavy equipment or unfiltered snowmobile usage. My old Kawasaki Invader snowmobile had chrome on chrome rings and bore, which entirely goes against the old adage never to run chrome on chrome. Apparently moly faced rings due to their porosity will trap abrasives and increase wear in dusty environments.

For a race car I recommend the moly faced ring since it is more durable under detonation and the moly coating holds oil which helps cool the ring. Regular cast iron rings are fine also but if you flutter a cast ring it will crack, ductile iron is slightly better but the steel rings outperform the cast iron types as long as the bore finish and roundness are there. As far as chrome faced rings go I believe they have a tool/spring steel construction that also contains a fair amount of moly. It's a pretty blurry line.

I prefer to just refer to the two as moly faced, and chrome faced.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 02:33 AM
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Chuck asked what we call a chrome moly ring?

Isn't that the sound the bell makes before the first round!
I was at a boxing ring once and I thought the bell was chromed steel. But, maybe it had a moly coating?

What's brown smells like crap and sounds like a bell.....Dung!!!!
I said crap..can I say crap here...??

Jeez...the first time Billy is on the computer after 10 pm and he gets corrupted.....His mom is gonna be pissed...!!!!

Hey, I said pissed....can I say pissed????

Don't curse without Dave's permission....you'll get in trouble!
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 07:10 AM
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usualy when I rebuild an engine I use the stock iron rings. My ford 302 truck went 250 000 miles the first time on them and left no ring lip at the top of the cylinder. It has 300000 more since then and still don't burn oil so they must not be all that bad. Since I didn't have to bore it the first time it should be good to go again for another overhaul when the time comes.
On my tractor I used chrome rings. They are very hard and resistant to dirt and other abrasives that usualy find their way into an industrial or farm engine. The original chrome rings that were in it wore the piston grooves to twice the original size and left a 1/8 inch lip on the top of the cylinder but the rings them selves were almost reusable. It was 50 years old at overhaul time with all original engine innards. Thank got it was a wet sleeve type engine and new pistons come with a new clylinder and rings.
I tried moly rings once on a 351 cleveland and Honestly I couldn't see any bennefit from them. It wen't to the track sometimes and did a lot of street light racing but I can't imagine the moly being any better than regular iron for that. I guess it is just more personal preferance than anything.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 09:19 AM
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What can I say? I have made NO statement as to how chromemoly rings are made! I only know that a set of moly ring are different from a set of chrome moly rings. The term "chromemoly" is used in the sells brochure that I had listed in my previous posting, wouldn't you call or list an item from the manufacture with the name they have deemed "correct"?
As far as Mr. mustang66maniac ...Sir you are the one the jumped in and stated there are no such thing as "chromemoly" rings! ...And in the normal adolescent way! Well the site I have listed provided PROVES you WRONG! Whether you care to recognize the fact of not.
Tell you what, we can discuss it over some beers, 1st round on me! ...Oh that's right, your not old enough yet!!? ..are you? *L*
...Well Good Luck to you! (19 and a Ford guy too! ...they never learn!) ...Mark
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 12:34 PM
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 12:38 PM
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I still dont see how i was wrong. You stated that there are 3 different kinds of rings; iron, moly, and chrome moly. When in fact its iron, moly, and chrome. There is no such thing as chrome moly rings, only sets that are sold with chrome...and moly rings. Chrome and moly fits into the 3 different kinds of rings but chromoly does not. Its ok that your wrong, it happens.

We could discuss it over some beers if youd like. But id hate to outdrink you too.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 12:53 PM
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He did'nt say Dick, he said D ! ck.

WHATS A RING?

LMAO!!
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 01:12 PM
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Ford people-I don't know about them. I would much rather have a chevy and not worry about these problems at all
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 01:51 PM
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Mustang is correct, there is no such thing as a "chrome-moly" piston ring, regardless what anyone's "sales brochure" might state. Also, there is nobody in the domestic engine parts market who is packaging a set with moly second rings. All manufacturers utilize a grey cast iron, plain second ring. Most second rings are taper faced, beveled, reverse twist - BUT a few non high performance sets do use a grey iron, barrel-faced second ring.

Now with that said, some old timers may remember the TRW "Double Moly" rings from 20-30 years ago. These were a neat advertising gimmic - if moly is good, then double moly has to be REALLY good!! Well, it wasn't so. These sets used a barrel faced grey iron non-twist ring in BOTH the top and second groove, which is not the optimum combination for high performance engines. Also at least one piston ring packager on the West Coast does offer a taper faced second ring with moly facing. Works OK, but is not necessary.

And yes, the cylinder does have to be finished differently depending upon the type of ring used:
Grey cast iron, plain faced rings should be used anytime the engine is NOT bored. These rings will live OK in a cylinder that has slight taper, or is not perfectly round. They will also last many miles in an engine that is bored and honed with medium or fine grit stones - as long as it is not used in a performance or racing application. The cast iron will not hold up to high rpm and the resultant high temperatures.
Grey iron rings with moly face will survive a little better that the plain face iron ring, as long as the cylinder is honed with fine grit stones. These rings are still marginal in a high performance engine.
Ductile iron rings with plasma moly face is the top ring utilized in 95% of the current high performance ring sets.
Steel has been used for the past few years, especially in import engine applications. Steel rings with plasma moly facing is slowly making it way into the domestic performance market.
Generally, chrome facing on either grey iron or ductile top rings have been used for heavy duty and off-road construction and farm machinery. The cylinder finish should be somewhat rough (compared to moly) so that the hard face of the ring will seat correctly. It is a little harder to seat these rings, but a properly prepared engine with chrome rings should be seated within 1000 miles or so. If 20 to 40k miles are necessary to seat the rings, the cylinders were not finished properly OR the cylinders are tapered or not round. A chrome ring should NEVER be used on a chrome cylinder sleeve. It is like rubbing two plates of glass together and will not seat properly. Most performance motorcycles and some high-end performance cars are now using a Nickosel (sp?) plating which does break in OK.
Alright, I am finished for now.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 03:03 PM
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What is it with you guys that say there are not such thing as "chrome moly" rings!!?? When a manufacture make a set of piston rings AND CALLS THEM "CHROME MOLY RINGS", then there ARE chrome moly piston rings! ...Whether they make them out out cast iron or cardboard! Why can't you believe what you read? I truly don't understand!!?? ...Are you trying to split hairs or what?

http://store.summitracing.com/produc...earchtype=ecat

IF you wanted these ring from Summit racing and called them cast iron rings, do you think Summit Racing will send you the rings you wanted? ...JEEZE!
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 03:10 PM
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just because some bozo on a keyboard types something, does that mean it is accurate?
damn, that sounded like dave........
i guess thats why i don't trade with summit, they sell snakeoil....
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2003, 05:33 PM
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let me rephrase that..........

just cause something says it is, does that make it so?
if i told you that my dog was a cat, do you think it would meow?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2003, 01:31 AM
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I read it on the internet... must be true
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2003, 02:10 AM
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No such thing as Chromoly rings!!!!

11echo is just a ********* old guy who has no life!!! Chromoly is one word, not two. So when someone says they bought a Chrome moly ring set. What they got has a chrome ring and a moly ring in each cylinder. Besides A$$WIPE(11ECHO), you have probably never built an engine in your life!!!. I have a friend who is your same age, he has worked as a partsman since he was 17 years old. He has built over 30 engines in his lifetime, non-professionaly. He has never heard of Chromoly rings, BECAUSE THEY DON'T EXIST!!! If you think that everything on the internet is correct, maybe you should go back to writing on cave walls, if you can handle that kind of technology!!!
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2003, 07:10 PM
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i MADE sOME RInGS YesTERdAY OUT oF AN oLD CAR bUMPER. iT WAS cHrOmE. i tHeN lUBeD IT wItH some mOlY luBe aNd VOILA!!!!! cRHOME MOLy rInGS!!!!!!
WANNA FIGHT? bRInG It oN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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