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Old 12-13-2009, 04:08 PM
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Monte Carlo Starting Problems

Hello all.
I am new to this forums so bare with me. :]. I have a 86 Monte SS that will not start. History: instrument light come on when turning key. Had my son try to start the car while I held a test lamp on the started. The test light lite up so I pulled the started and had it checked which of coarse checked out fine. Cleaned contacts and replaced it. The car started, YEA maybe just dirty connections. What Ever!!! car died again two days later after my son took it to work, so I replaced the ignition switch but no help. The neutral switch is mechanical (i believe) cause the key lock will not move to start position if not in park or neutral. So to my questions. Are there any fusible links and if so where? Could the starter fail after checking, cleaning the contacts and replacing it two days later? Might you have another avenue that I can check? Thanks for your help

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Old 12-13-2009, 11:06 PM
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stock set up? by the battery sometimes there fuse links, ( sometime wrapped with alot of black tape ) in your manuel should be diagrams showing if there fuse links or not ( on whatever circuit your looking into ) of course dosent show you WHERE but at least tells you either yea or nay, also, i had a similar prob before, and it was ground wires to blame, especially if they don't have bare metal to complete circuit back to battery
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Old 12-14-2009, 02:57 PM
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Yea car is stock, other than engine. Previous owner put in a 350 small block. I will check the grounds today. thanks
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Old 12-14-2009, 03:09 PM
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Can you short the hot post on the starter with the ign. post also on the starter if it cranks it's in the wiring some where, hope this helps
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:07 PM
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Update on problem

Hello again,

Ok update on my issue. Cleaned all grounds to block and frame (well ground going to fender straight from neg of bat post) still no start. Tried shorting the starter but it did not crank. did hear a "click" sound of the electrical connection. So decieded to remove started again and get it tested. Of course it tested fine, again. Reinstalled the starter and with the ignition switch off I tried to start it with a screwdriver on the slider of the switch. Thought "casper" came an helped some . Started to reinstall the switch and when finished car does not crank anymore. aaaaaaaah. removed the ignition switch to see if lost travel but now it won't start even with a screwdriver on the ign switch. Batt is good. Charged it last night just because, the bat I purchased two weeks ago.

So now if the starter tests fine on the bench at autozone, could it still be bad and not start in the car? Like I mentioned it did crank two times after reinstalled then nothing not even a click.

Things that make you go HMMMMMMM
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:42 PM
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I had one that I painted the motor and starter I bolted it to the block and it would not start I took it off I had to sand the paint off the motor and starter were it bolts up, was not getting ground to the block .if that don't do it I would get the test light out and start testing the wiring
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:01 PM
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Check the main feed wire coming from the starter could be the problem. Check to see if it is broke or got against something and got burnt. JMO

Cole
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Old 12-15-2009, 04:14 PM
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If you have a meter or a test light, ground one probe to the battery and put the other on the smaller starter stud, not the one the battery is on. Have someone turn the key. If it lights up or shows 12 volts with the key in the start position the ignition is working. If not you need to look at the switch, neutral safety switch or wiring.
I would next check for 12vlots on the stud on the starter that the battery attaches to. Check on the stud itself, not the cable. Check this with the key turned to start also. You could have a connection issue on the stud, this will prove it.

Next check the ground of the starter, again with the key turned to start go between the case of the starter and the stud, you should have 12 volts. If not the engine or the starter are missing the ground connection.
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Old 12-15-2009, 05:57 PM
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dude, i still am staying with grounding., i too painted my block and after i was all ready to fire it, nothing. on more than just one front. same thing, had to go back and re sand a lot of diff areas. ( firing still pending, next weekend ) but yeah, doing a current check or checking for volts to the starter would be in order as well. ( im sure you prolly done this already ) what about just returning the starter and getting a diff one? is it still got a recite? at least then you would know 100 % its NOT the starter. also is there any ground from the solenoid or starter to the block? i seem to remember a caddy of mine had that setup, it was braided wire, would work without it, maybe at one time yours had that as well?
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:05 PM
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also, i re read your posts, ive just done 3 column installs ( couldn't decide which one i wanted ) but during one of the dissasemblys i noticed the plugs that connect to the MECHANICAL slider ( on column ) was VERY corroded as well as about 3 inches or so of wire . this plug would NOT work. have you examined all the contacts on that slider carefully? as you probably know, placement of slider before final torque is also important
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:27 PM
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2nd Update

Changed the bat cables ground and positive. No Help. As far as the plugs you mentioned my neutral switch works mechanically not electrically. So I haven't checked the plugs on the column. The wiring seems good, got 12 v were I should. After the cable change I gave up and bought a new starter. Installed it and it worked. We will see if it holds, finished for tonight getting cold outside. I am wondering if I had a flat spot on the solenoid and when I would take out the starter, dropping it on the floor would shift something and their for testing good at AutoZone. What do you think of my theory? Will let ya know if car stays running, thank you all for the help.
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:40 PM
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perhaps, dont people sometimes hit the starter with something to get them to work? ( I dont do...) same concept? well you'll know soon enough i suppose..
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Old 12-16-2009, 01:19 AM
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odds are the starter was bad.
its pretty common for a dieing GM starter to work right after you hit it.
the brushes wear down and loose contact with the armature. tapping on it usually reseats the brushes and you can get a start or 2 out of it before needing to tap on it again.
when a starter gets to that point, it needs to be replaced right away.

if you got the new starter from autozone, i wouldn't expect it to last.
sometimes you get a good one and not have problems, just not very often.
same thing with O'Reilly house brand starters, im on my fifth or sixth replacement starter from them in the last 2 years.
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Old 12-16-2009, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guanaco30
Hello again,

Ok update on my issue. Clea
again. Reinstalled the starter and with the ignition switch off I tried to start it with a screwdriver on the slider of the switch. Started to reinstall the switch and when finished car does not crank anymore. aaaaaaaah. removed the ignition switch to see if lost travel but now it won't start even with a screwdriver on the ign switch. Batt is good. Charged it last night just because, the bat I purchased two weeks ago.

So now if the starter tests fine on the bench at autozone, could it still be bad and not start in the car?



Like I mentioned it did crank two times after reinstalled then nothing not even a click.

Things that make you go HMMMMMMM
ned all grounds to block and frame (well ground going to fender straight from neg of bat post)

### too check this ground I would suggest and I think others are saying this .. ground the BLOCK to the bat, can use a jumper cable too test, that way you know for sure you have it grounded.. However I do not remember you saying any thing about the engine being painted so that is not a problem ... if I read all right


Tried shorting the starter but it did not crank. did hear a "click" sound of the electrical connection. So decieded to remove started again and get it tested. Of course it tested fine

##### that could happen if the solenoid/relay has dirty burnt contacts Sometimes times it will click and act just like a weak battery, and if bumped enough the contacts will arch through the crud and make a good enough contact to start .... intermittent.... That starter solenoid would need to be replace .

##### I keep coming back to two possibilities ... starter solenoid/relay , the same part and on the starter, or neutral safety switch .. just for grins after all is back together and it won't start cycle the shifter in and out of part , then without doing anything else, go back to park and try to start it. the problem may show it's ugly face and crank .

Try not to jump all over stay in one place at a time until you are sure that the area has been verified and test good, then move to the next, how many miles on this car ? Hope I have giving you more to chew on ..
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guanaco30
Changed the bat cables ground and positive. No Help. As far as the plugs you mentioned my neutral switch works mechanically not electrically. So I haven't checked the plugs on the column. The wiring seems good, got 12 v were I should. After the cable change I gave up and bought a new starter. Installed it and it worked. We will see if it holds, finished for tonight getting cold outside. I am wondering if I had a flat spot on the solenoid and when I would take out the starter, dropping it on the floor would shift something and their for testing good at AutoZone. What do you think of my theory? Will let ya know if car stays running, thank you all for the help.
Never saw a mechanical neutral safety setup.
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