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Old 06-05-2010, 05:31 AM
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More exhaust help

Hi. I am about to start the whole works on a 37 Ford Tudor. I have questions about the clearance between different parts. I replaced the gas tank with one from Tanks that is just like the original, so there shouldn't be a problem there. My problem and what scares me a little is from the header.. I have block hugger headers. The car has been lowered 4" in the front. From the bottom of the header flange to the garage floor is 10". I heard something about a scrub line, but don't know what this is. Also I have been told to keep the exhaust pipe away from different things.. Like the starter, oil filter, brake lines, and master cylinder which is under the floor. It is a tight space under there. I have the battery mounted behind the front tire on the starter side fender. My main question is HOW MUCH SPACE??? No one seems to tell me.. Is it a couple of inches?? I also don't know what size pipe to use. I could reduce down to a 2" pipe, or go with 2 1/2" pipe. I have a muffler shop that will make the bends for me. All I have to do is bend a coat hanger for my bends. What I was thinking, and I may be wrong is to make a template using one of the header gaskets out of 1/4" plywood. I would measure across the bottom to find the center and put the coat hanger there. Then make my bends. I was also thinking.. Can someone help me as far as how the pipe should be bent after that?? What about the clearance?? After I clear the engine I will run the pipe threw a framework I have on the frame. On the other side I will run it near the drive shaft and over the rear axle and out the rear. Then I don't know if I will run it straight out, or bend it to the sides alittle..
As far as mufflers.. I was thinking of Dynomax, or Thrush. I want a muffler that I can hear the motor at a idle like at stop lights, but I DON'T want to hear it while driving.. Can anyone help?? Thanks.. Al
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Old 06-05-2010, 06:17 AM
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How’s that hopey-changey thing
 
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Scrub line is this, no parts should be able to be ground off or touching the road should a tire go flat . In other words if the car sits on the rim does anything touch other then the rim.

Decisions need to be made for starters. You would want to have everything in place and go from there . I know this will not tell you what you are asking I am just going to get you to have the idea of how to put it together with a few suggestions as to what to think about as you design ..

With every thing in place look it over and as you start to put a plan together figure in the fact that you will need to have access to various parts and allow for the room to do that . For instance I think one would not want to remove the header to change an oil filter, getting the idea ?

Then from the engine back it pretty much is a what and however you can cram it under there. I personally am not a huge fan of exhaust through the frame routing, sure it looks nice. But I think the closer it is to metal the more the heat will radiate to other parts under the car, no it would not destroy the under carriage but it sure could effect the temp in the cockpit . The second reason I am not so jazzed with this concept is. I see these done on cars with the body off, plumed from the top on an open frame, loads of tweaking room to maneuver the pipe around .... However I have never seen a muffler change on these system or the exhaust pipe itself for that matter and do not think I would want to.

You can get preformed exhaust pipe, donuts, 90s and 45s that can be cut and fitted as you build and tack the system together. So as you can see the exhaust system is pretty much a custom install for the most part and will have to be adapted to the individuals car and design

Finally you want a muffler that roars at the stop light and is quiet down the road ..............?

I am thinking you need a tape player or cd with some sort of exhaust noise you could play for the crowds at the red light or kar show .. you are not serious right ? LMAO

Last edited by pepi; 06-05-2010 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 06-05-2010, 06:31 AM
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No CD with the noise.. I want quiet mufflers.. I hear of turbo, welded, straight threw, hush,etc. How do you figure that out?? You can go to the various sites that sell the mufflers an hear the sounds.. sounds like noise to me. When I am crusing down the road.. I don't want to hear the exhaust over the radio..

As far as the pipe goes.. I have plenty of room around the frame work then next to the driveshaft to the muffler and over the rear axle. Still need to know. Is how much space between?? I see heat sheilds for the muffler, and over the starter.. Is it also wise to use that heat wrap over the pipe if the pipe is getting close to something it shouldn't?? Or.. How close can the pipe be away from something like a brake line?? 1" or 2"??
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:38 AM
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How’s that hopey-changey thing
 
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I was kidding of course about the cd and stuff, remember that going down the road the sound will be directed out and toward the rear of the car and should not over ride the volume of the radio , plus there is always that volume control thing as a back up ..

The very best suggestion about your muffler choice I could recommend it to keep you ears open and when you here what you like ask the driver what he is running. Most folks will be happy to fill you in, then listen to the web site and see if that sound is what you are after. Herring it in the real world will let you know how loud it will be

Anyway as to the clearance question just have a look at the way factory cars are put together, that would for me give the best clues, for instance a rear break line, typically they are in or next to the frame and end up well away from the exhaust pipes .



I believe you said this was a tudor ? I think you will have all the room you need , just dropped in the front right, would the through the frame be the cross or X member, might want to keep that clamped and not welded for ease of service down the road .

Hope I am helping you some here, this still comes back to the custom angle and will end up just right for your ride . If you are looking at the fit and you think it is to tight, it probably is 2 -3 inches would be a guide, if you can, no closer the 1 inch, although and here we go, it might not be always passable, just do not have any direct contact of the pipe to the parts and when tight get the most distance .
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:50 PM
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Well I took the plunge and went out and spent $40. I bought (All in 2 1/2") pipe. I bought a 7' straight piece, and a 45, and a 90. After alot of measuring, and some cutting on the 90. I don't think it looks to bad. I got the pipe down and it doesn't drop much below the pan. It is well under the starter, and away from other things. It is also well off the ground. Only thing i wonder about is the back of the starter. Where that bolt sticks out of the cover.. It is about 1" away from the pipe. Maybe a little further. Hard to get in and measure that. Should the header be wraped there, or a shield be put there, or just forget it?? Not sure.. Al
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Old 06-05-2010, 08:23 PM
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Well you did about what I was going to suggest. I have 3 in ex and I modified the block huggers to accept this so mine are even tighter than yours. I was able to get a very tight radius bend from the header to go under the starter. Very similar to yours but much bigger pipe. The blower causes the ex heat to be much greater. Severe in fact.

I got a bunch of big hose clamps from Mcmaster-Carr and some header wrap. I used the clamps to fasten the ends of the wrap. I wrapped the lower 4 inches or so of the block hugger by the starter and the 18 inches or so of pipe from the header and past the starter. This lowered the starter temp from over 400 deg to about 200 after an hour cruise on the highway.

I did almost the same on the other side by the oil filter. I don't have any temp reading on this but I think it helps as the oil temp at idle is about 5 psi higher with the wrap. I use a high vol pump so my idle pressure is much higher than a stock pump. No need to get into the reasons for now.

I also put some wrap near the speedometer pulse sender as the pipe was very close to it. It hasn't burned up so I think it helped.

I have Summit turbo mufflers and they get about 500+ deg on the highway. I really need some heat shields around them but I just haven't got that far yet.

Make sure you can either remove the pipe by the starter easily or be able to change the starter without removing it. The wrap type clamps will help in removal. I'm going to make flange type for my application and use solid copper gaskets. I can get my pipe off but it is a struggle. It would be a difficult thing to do at night on the road side in the rain. haha

As for muffler noise there is good advise earlier. Go and listen to others. Everybody like to show off haha. Mine has a drone at cruise speed that is going to be difficult to insulate. I plan on double insulation in the trunk area and especially the rear bulkhead. The trunk lid itself is a bad sounding board that I won't be able to do much about so I'll have to live with it. I don't have a radio or sound system and don't plan on one. Don't have a TV at home either so you can see my point.

You have the right idea. Just plan 10 steps ahead so you don't get backed into a corner. Leave as much room as possible and plan on some wrap and heat shields.

I also have a stainless steel sheet lined with header wrap and placed about 3/4 in away from my forward wire harness. The block hugger melted the harness wrap which was some 8 inches away on a highway cruise. Works good now and looks nice.

The lower steering column is next for shielding. It has lost the paint a couple inches up from the bottom and the paint on the connecting shaft is nearly gone so it is getting pretty hot too.

Hope you can use some of this stuff.
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Old 06-06-2010, 05:05 AM
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Thanks. That is alot of help. I think I may have some help for you as well though. A few years back I built a tunner. Hey. It was all I had at the time. I had close to 1300 Watts of power in the trunk because of the large sub woofers.. I had the car in shows so everything had to be perfect. Now my hearing is bad.. Happened years ago listing to racing engines and not having proper ear protection. I never really cranked up the sound in the car. It was pretty much for show only. Though when I did it would rattle the hell out of the deck lid, because the sub woofers need a surface to bounce off because they are non directional. Anyhow what helped was using Dynamat between the ribs of the deck lid and the skin. Also.. If you can. Build a sub floor. By that I mean. Use furing strips or 1x2"over some sound deadener, and between the strips put down some polyfil or fiberglass insulation. Then build a floor over it out of 1/4" plywood and your carpet. Here is a pic of the trunk on the Honda that I rebuilt.

Those clamps that you talk about. Is that that clamp that looks kind of like a pop can with two bolts that hold it together?? I had a 55 Chev way back when that would never start when it got hot. If i can remember back that far.. I think the header was dimpled at the starter, or it was like 1/4" away from the starter on the side. I will pick up some of that heat wrap at Back to the 50's in a couple of weeks. That is where I buy most of my parts for the year. Also one of those clamps.. Al
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:09 AM
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Yeah, the clamps are caled band clamps. You can get them for pipes that slip together or pipes that butt together. Either work well. I've used them in industry as well. The otheres are just big hose clamps. I get the light weight ones as they are easier to work with in the large sizes.

Thank for the trunk tip. I have some underlayment sound deadner that I may use. My trunk is very small, being filled with a larger aluminum gas tank that may have to get even bigger. The trunk lid is molded fiberglass and there is no place to put insulation other than to blow it in thru a hole. It might work. I will surely consider it.

Look me up at Back to the 50's. I'll probably be around the Willys guys near the grand stand. I may also be out in the big lot on the west side. My 41 Willys is a dark cherry metallic pearl color...no flames just big BDS scoop sticking out of the hood.
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Old 06-06-2010, 08:45 AM
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I will check on those clamps.. See you at the 50's, though that is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.. One truck that I remember last year was down by the main enterance, or by the South Campgrounds. A pickup with the engine mounted behind the cab.. Al
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