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Old 06-04-2010, 06:43 AM
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more low end torque form the stock 350

i need to get some more low end torque form the stock 350 in my mud truck. what are my best bolt on options without spending a ton of money? thanks for the help

p.s. this if for a 94 gmc 1500 on 35" tires dont know the gear ratio

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Old 06-04-2010, 07:29 AM
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mostly likely a gear ratio issue after adding 35 inch tall tires.

however, long turbo headers are about the cheapest way to add torque.

I believe a 94 350 will benefit from a vortec head swap. I think 94's are the last year of the swirl port head which was a real dog. A vortec head and intake swap is a common thing to do on these trucks. Do some research on a truck site. not to expensive to swap vortec heads and a vortec intake on to your current long block. should be worth 40hp and 40ftlb of torque.
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:51 AM
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i agree i dont imagine that a 94 1500 has any more than 3.23 or 3.42 gear in it and i believe the last year of the swirl port heads was 95' as they went to the vortec 906/062 heads in 96'. with 35" tires i wouldn't be running anything less than 4.10's but you would even do better with 4.33's or 4.56's. then i would recomend just finding a 96-00' 5.7L vortec engine and just doing a swap as well as putting headers and duals on it. if you had the extra money you could try and find a computer compatible cam say about 210-214 @ .050 to put in it. these engines rarely need to be rebuilt if they have less than 120K on them and if they do it is just ussually honing the cyliders and reringing them. this may be a little out of your budget but i would imagine that you could do it all for less than 1000 if it didn't need to be freshined up, 1500 if it did
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:55 AM
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thanks ill look into the vortec swap and headers. i know the gear ratio isnt what came in it but i cant remember what he said he put in it... is there a way to find out?
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Old 06-04-2010, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow120
thanks ill look into the vortec swap and headers. i know the gear ratio isnt what came in it but i cant remember what he said he put in it... is there a way to find out?

here is the easiest way with out taking the cover off, put a piece of tape on the tire where the tire meets the fender, then put a peice of tape on the driveshaft (one that will be very visible) jack the rear of the truck up and put it in nuetral, rotate the tire one complete turn and count exactly how many full revolutions the driveshaft makes. if the drive shaft makes 3 complete full turns and nothing more then you have 3.08:1, if it makes 3.5 turns then you likely have 3.42:1, if it makes 3.75 turns then you likely have 3.73:1 and if it makes just over 4 turns then you have 4.10:1, get the idea
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
here is the easiest way with out taking the cover off, put a piece of tape on the tire where the tire meets the fender, then put a peice of tape on the driveshaft (one that will be very visible) jack the rear of the truck up and put it in nuetral, rotate the tire one complete turn and count exactly how many full revolutions the driveshaft makes. if the drive shaft makes 3 complete full turns and nothing more then you have 3.08:1, if it makes 3.5 turns then you likely have 3.42:1, if it makes 3.75 turns then you likely have 3.73:1 and if it makes just over 4 turns then you have 4.10:1, get the idea
this doesn't work with an open diff. if one tire stays still and the other moves then it halves the ratio (3.08 = 1.54 turns). furthermore, if the other tire spins a little and stops then it really messes up the ratio check. The best way is to calculate the ratio is to measure the tire diameter then record the rpm at 60 mph while in 3rd gear (1:1 in a GM). give me the numbers and I'll calculate it for you.
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Old 06-05-2010, 01:26 PM
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i've never heard of it halving the results if you have an open diff, but i have heard that if you have and open diff then it would help if you had a friend to hold the other tire to keep it from moving. ive never had to do this as i have never owened a car with an open diff

your other method will work easier, and he could do it him self as long as he find one of the calculators on the internet
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Old 06-05-2010, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
i agree i dont imagine that a 94 1500 has any more than 3.23 or 3.42 gear in it and i believe the last year of the swirl port heads was 95' as they went to the vortec 906/062 heads in 96'. with 35" tires i wouldn't be running anything less than 4.10's but you would even do better with 4.33's or 4.56's. then i would recomend just finding a 96-00' 5.7L vortec engine and just doing a swap as well as putting headers and duals on it. if you had the extra money you could try and find a computer compatible cam say about 210-214 @ .050 to put in it. these engines rarely need to be rebuilt if they have less than 120K on them and if they do it is just ussually honing the cyliders and reringing them. this may be a little out of your budget but i would imagine that you could do it all for less than 1000 if it didn't need to be freshined up, 1500 if it did

im sorry but i have to disagree with your post. ive been around mud trucks since i was a kid and even with 3.08's a 350 SHOULD power them just fine, thats my my dad is running on his right now and it has plenty of power

first thing you need to do is tell us a little more about your setup. is your engine fuel injected or carbed? if its a fuelie, first thing you wanna do is rip all that EFI junk off, toss it in the woods, buy an edlebrock performer intake and carb and put that on.

second, have you done any tuning to the motor at all? checked plugs, wires, distibutor, etc.
i noticed my 350 was feeling a little sluggish and one night i had to pop my hood to top the rad up, there was two plugs arcing out at the boot, so you might wanna try adding dielectric greas to all your plug boots. water and mud dont help them out any. im speaking from experience here.

third, check all your plug gaps,ignition timing,etc.

what are you running for an exhaust?

one more thing, if its a mud truck you better get used to hauling off the diff cover, because every time you get in a real mud hole, your gonna wanna check your diff grease, they fill up full of water quite often, regardless of how good your seals are. while your in there, look at the numbers stamped on your ring gear, there should be two that look something like this "41:9" towards the end of the ring gear, divide the bigger by the smaller number and that tells you your gear ratio.

in this case it would be a 4.56 gear, thats what i have in mine, but im running extremely heavy 38" military tires on mine.

i do alot of mudding so any help you need ill try where i can.

also, if your serious about building a good mud truck, you might want to consider finding an older 4 speed standard from the old style chevs, these things are tough as nails, and give you power on demand....just sayin. also straight axle front housings are MUCH better.
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b00tz
im sorry but i have to disagree with your post. ive been around mud trucks since i was a kid and even with 3.08's a 350 SHOULD power them just fine, thats my my dad is running on his right now and it has plenty of power

first thing you need to do is tell us a little more about your setup. is your engine fuel injected or carbed? if its a fuelie, first thing you wanna do is rip all that EFI junk off, toss it in the woods, buy an edlebrock performer intake and carb and put that on.

second, have you done any tuning to the motor at all? checked plugs, wires, distibutor, etc.
i noticed my 350 was feeling a little sluggish and one night i had to pop my hood to top the rad up, there was two plugs arcing out at the boot, so you might wanna try adding dielectric greas to all your plug boots. water and mud dont help them out any. im speaking from experience here.

third, check all your plug gaps,ignition timing,etc.

what are you running for an exhaust?

one more thing, if its a mud truck you better get used to hauling off the diff cover, because every time you get in a real mud hole, your gonna wanna check your diff grease, they fill up full of water quite often, regardless of how good your seals are. while your in there, look at the numbers stamped on your ring gear, there should be two that look something like this "41:9" towards the end of the ring gear, divide the bigger by the smaller number and that tells you your gear ratio.

in this case it would be a 4.56 gear, thats what i have in mine, but im running extremely heavy 38" military tires on mine.

i do alot of mudding so any help you need ill try where i can.

also, if your serious about building a good mud truck, you might want to consider finding an older 4 speed standard from the old style chevs, these things are tough as nails, and give you power on demand....just sayin. also straight axle front housings are MUCH better.

i dont think you know exactly what you are talking about, the fact that it is a 350 and a set of 3.08 gears has nothing to do with the fact that it has 35" tall tires, and yes it can turn it just fine. but any time you add larger tires you throw off the balance between the cam, RPM's, and speed, and stall like if you have a 3.08 rear gear and origianlly had 31" tires on the truck and then you added 35" it will drive as if you had 31" tires and a 2.40 rear gear and that is just plan stupid. and i mentioned to him changing the cam, now a stock 350 EFI has about 190 of duration @ .050 on it's stock cam and i just recomended him to buy a cam that has 210-214 of duration @ .050, and that is also why i mentioned to him that he needed to by a lower rear gear set, otherwise this truck would drive like an absolute dog as it would already with 35" tires and 3.08 gears. and i'm sorry but you have to be about a idiot to put 35" tall tires on a truck with only 3.08 rear gears. and i'm just about postitive that most every one on this site will agree with me. if you dont believe me then just start a new thread about it and see how many people correct you and say you need atleast 4.10's with 35's. this aint my first rodeo, i built an 87' K-5 blazer when i was in high school with 35x12.50's, 383 from a 96' 5.7L vortec, posi with 4.10's and rebuilt the 700R4 with all new bands and clutches, and a mild stall and shift kit, 4" suspension lift, rebuilt the NP241 transfer case out of it, and trust me i did my fair share of muddin', even got her stuck a few times, typically trying to pull someone else out. but to think that ridding around with 35" tires and only 3.08's is okay is not that bright, especially if you think you are going to fare well in the mud with it, you'll have absolutley no pull down low with them
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Old 06-05-2010, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z
i dont think you know exactly what you are talking about, the fact that it is a 350 and a set of 3.08 gears has nothing to do with the fact that it has 35" tall tires, and yes it can turn it just fine. but any time you add larger tires you throw off the balance between the cam, RPM's, and speed, and stall like if you have a 3.08 rear gear and origianlly had 31" tires on the truck and then you added 35" it will drive as if you had 31" tires and a 2.40 rear gear and that is just plan stupid. and i mentioned to him changing the cam, now a stock 350 EFI has about 190 of duration @ .050 on it's stock cam and i just recomended him to buy a cam that has 210-214 of duration @ .050, and that is also why i mentioned to him that he needed to by a lower rear gear set, otherwise this truck would drive like an absolute dog as it would already with 35" tires and 3.08 gears. and i'm sorry but you have to be about a idiot to put 35" tall tires on a truck with only 3.08 rear gears. and i'm just about postitive that most every one on this site will agree with me. if you dont believe me then just start a new thread about it and see how many people correct you and say you need atleast 4.10's with 35's. this aint my first rodeo, i built an 87' K-5 blazer when i was in high school with 35x12.50's, 383 from a 96' 5.7L vortec, posi with 4.10's and rebuilt the 700R4 with all new bands and clutches, and a mild stall and shift kit, 4" suspension lift, rebuilt the NP241 transfer case out of it, and trust me i did my fair share of muddin', even got her stuck a few times, typically trying to pull someone else out. but to think that ridding around with 35" tires and only 3.08's is okay is not that bright, especially if you think you are going to fare well in the mud with it, you'll have absolutley no pull down low with them

quite frankly sir you can think what you want, i dont personally care what your opinion is. i only said i have to disagree with yours.

i did NOT however call you an idiot in any way shape or form, so you sir can **** off.

now you caan believe what you want, as i said, but ive seen it, done , and drove it hundreds of times, with a 3.08 gear, auto trans and 35" tires, it shouldnt be a problem.
so until youve actually tried it, maybe you should keep your text book ideas to yourself.
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Old 06-05-2010, 08:04 PM
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look man i really dont want to get into a P'sn match with you i just dont have the energy right now, and when i mentioned the whole IDIOT thing i was not specifically referring to you i was referring to anyone who was willing to do this and think it was ok. will it break parts NO, is it smart NO. if you want to drive it as only a highway truck or dont mind it being a bit sluggish on acceleration then it will be fine, but in the mud it couldn't get out of a wet paper bag and if you wanted to tow a trailer with it then it would take 20+ seconds to even reach highway speeds especially when during this era when they used the 3.08's the 350's didn't even make 200hp if you look them up you will find that they are only rated from the factory from 150-190hp and 220-260tq. you mention TEXT BOOK ideas come on now man didn't i just mention that i had a 87' K-5 blazer that origianlly had 3.08's a crappy 180hp 350 and 33x12.50's when i bought it, that thing couldn't get out of it's own way compaired to what i drive today 02' GMC sierra 2500HD with stock 4.10 posi, 6.0L with oversize tires (that is until i rebuilt that K-5), the day you build what i have then you may be able to talk like this to someone but for now you are really just showing your ignorance

like i said if you doubt me and you have the guts then start a new thread about 35" tires with only 3.08 gears and an aftermarket cam
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by my87Z
the day you build what i have then you may be able to talk like this to someone but for now you are really just showing your ignorance

like i said if you doubt me and you have the guts then start a new thread about 35" tires with only 3.08 gears and an aftermarket cam

ive built my mud truck,still have it and drive it every day.

started with an 87 sierra 1500, dropped in a new motor, swapped out 10 bolts with 3.08's and installed a 14 bolt with 4.10's, swapped out 4.10's for 4.56's,38.5" michelin XML tires, installed lockers front and rear, 4" lift springs 3" body lift, 4 speed standard, new fluid clutch,headers,edlebrock carb,equus guages ,custom dash to hold the cd player,custom front and rear bumbers. painted interior, lots of bodywork,removed wiring harness and rebuilt, and now im getting read to swap everything over to a 5/4 ton military frame.

the list goes on.

i dunno maybe you just had a bad one... or we got a good one, either way someone got the bad end of the stick there...because ours worked excellent, mind you our motor wasnt from the 90's,it was a 60's carbed 350, maybe that made the difference?
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Old 06-06-2010, 02:09 PM
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that could make a huge difference, in the sixtes the low output 350's made 295hp, vs the 180hp from the late 70's through the early 90's, chevy trucks didn't start making 200hp agian untill the mid 90's. i still dont think it is very smart to run 35's with 3.08 rears but that is just my opinion, and when you add an aftermarket cam that puts the power band higher up in the rpm range then you really dont want 3.08 gears as it will take it's sweet time getting the motor into the power band. that is why you really dont see to many cams that dont mention lower gears needed. you can still run the higher gears but it will run like a dog until you get it in the power band and even then it will roll through the power band slow when you want it to spin up faster. your truck sounds nice, the 14bolt it what is in my 02' GMC 3/4T-HD with 4.10's it's a nice rear, although she really doesn't see any mud, the only thing i put her through is towing a camper to mountains once a year and pulling people out when they get stuck in the snow. i used to love to go muddin' but i found out fast that is breaks things and it ain't no fun getting stuck especially when not that many of your friends can get their trucks back where you can. almost eveytime i got stuck i had to call a friend of mine with a 4x6 john deer dually to come get me out along with anyone else who tried to come help me. about a year after i had the truck (87' K-5) i sheared the C-clip in the 10 bolt rear and ended up just replacing it with a 12 bolt and another set of 4.10's, anyway i found that i liked going really fast with brute off the line power better than i did getting dirty and constantly washing my truck.
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:53 PM
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To answer the question and not argue about gearing....

I agree on headers and dual exhaust as well as a tune up. I disagree that you need to toss the efi. You can probably still get a PROM chip for it that will wake it up alot. I would also check timing and make sure it is not slipped. If it is retarded it will make a real dog. The vortec swap is a great option, but you can probable get more out of yours just with the headers, PROM and tuning.

My opinion would be that the tall gears should be fine. In low range in the mud it should not take that much to turn 35s.

Of course when you want to get serious about turning the tires you can do a B series cummins swap like I did. It'll turn the tires 60mph in the mud at part throttle in 3rd gear .
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Old 06-10-2010, 09:17 PM
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I would not toss the efi, you can do better with the stock throttle body then you will a carb to suit your engine. Lets see a carb run upside down! For bouncing through holes and trails fuel injection will be a lot better. You can have a prom burnt for it or even better if you are close to a garage that does it take the truck to them after you have done all of the upgrades you have wanted to. Put this in it http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-3581/ OMG dude I put one of these in my 93 K1500 and it was NIGHT and DAY difference, definitely worth the 100 bucks. If they are 3.08 gears (I doubt they are, if they are stock gears they will probably be either 3.48 or 3.73) and you can find a donor truck with a front and rear diff of at least 3.73 swap them out 4.10 will be better. To tell you the truth though if you don't have much into the truck before dumping a barrel full of cash in it I would look for a 87 or older 3/4 ton Chevy pickup. The independent front suspension in the trucks is built like a front wheel drive car. They are not mad for 35" tires. I wouldn't build a mud truck out of this especially with an aggressive 35" tire. But seriously dump the 3.08 gears that is the biggest killer for you if you have them. The best and only real way to check your gear ratio is to pull the pan and mark a tooth on the ring gear (the biggest one) and count them, then count the teeth on the pinion gear (the one that the drive shaft connects to). Take the largest number and divide it by the smallest number and that is your gear ratio. Chances are the rear diff fluid needs changed anyways so just pull the cover and make for sure what you have. Just remember if you swap the rear you have to swap the front. I don't mean to sound like I am talking to you as an idiot I just like to cover stuff.

Last edited by crussell85; 06-10-2010 at 09:24 PM.
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