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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2008, 01:20 AM
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stall

Jim,
So the looser converter swap will fix my problem? This is what i've been trying to find out all along. I was told that it wouldn't make a difference what converter I had in it that it would still lose idle and vacuum when i put it in gear.
Also Techinspector ain't on or just no reading this right now so How much HG do you think I'd gain by switching to a dual plane Intake like one of the 3 performer rpm intake's i have. Should i use the regular performer rpm, or the air gap??

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2008, 01:27 AM
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converter

ya know now that I think about it. Who knows what the stall of the stock converter is thats in there?? I know that most stock converters are around 1500, but this one feels like it locks up right away.
Just so you know it came out of a 87' chevy 3500 dually. It was a jasper factory exchange tranny set up for towing not racing. Would something like that have an even lower stall than say a passenger car's stall and that could explain why my idle is dropping so much when put in gear?? just a thought. its getting changed regaurdless but I'd still like do find out what it is.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2008, 07:31 AM
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Sorry about that. Yes the 3000+ stall will fix the idle issue. You should be able to idle at 1000 rpms in park and in gear. I doubt you will feel the car go into gear from park.

And yes, you need a bunch of timing (at least 20 degrees at idle) and a lower power valve number. (like 4.5). Total mechanical timing should be around 38 or 40 degrees with old iron heads.

Vacuum advance may not even work with that cam. You need to check the vacuum while driving down the road. It would help mpg if the vacuum advance would work.

I would use the RPM intake. Much better low rpm torque.

Don't expect too much power with that 3.08 gear. And be careful not to over heat the trans with that loose convertor on the street (try to run it above the stall).
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Old 10-07-2008, 09:42 PM
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carb and timing

OK, please forgive me but when you say lock it out, what exactly do you mean? Like I said, I have built 8 stock motors basically back to stock and 3 mild performance motors in my young career in this field. The most cam I've ever used is a comp 280 magnum. I never really had to learn this termanology or put it to use before, I could always just slap the dist. in find were it ran best and take off.
This one is proving to be much more difficult, but i love it. I learn something new every day.

anyway can someone fill me in on how to do this.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2008, 09:48 PM
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Dizzy

Do you just mean lock the distributor or are you refering to something inside the dist??
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2008, 10:33 PM
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If you are going to put the stall converter in this weekend I would wait to do any setup additions until after the converter goes in it will make all the difference in the world. Even if you don't put the gears in till later. After the converter goes in then work on the idle. Your chasing you tail otherwise. As far as the timing tape idea you could also consider buying a inexpensive timing light with advance dial on the back. Just keep in mind that if you fix your mech advance and set it at 36 deg it may be hard to start when its hot. sometimes you have to limit your mech advance say to 8 deg then set the base at 28 deg which will help with hot starts. But I agree with the previous post that you need more.
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Old 10-07-2008, 10:36 PM
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Sorry I should have added when he said lock the dist he meant lock the mech advance so it is fixed and does not move. so you set your timing at 36 deg and it stays there. Then refer to my previous post.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:26 PM
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timing

OK, I have been doing a lot of reading and I am starting to understand the terms that everyone keeps using. Mechanical and centrifugal are the same thing right?? thats what was confusing me....

Aside from that, how do I get the mechanical section locked?? Do I need to remove the weights and springs and find a way to lock it OR is there something I'm missing.

Also, I like the Idea of being able to still start my car when its hot, so if I just want to limit it as you said MEZ how do I do that???

Also, even if i lock the mechanical advance out at 36, If I'm using Manifold vacuum on the canister, provided Its working, wouldn't the 15* supplied by the vacuum advance at Idle put me up to like 51* at Idle making it to much?? This is whats confusing me too.. My brain is telling me that if I'm attaining 15* vacuum advance (provided its working) on full manifold vacuum, then wouldn't I only need 21* to attain the 36 total, OR is it the 51 that I really need, Or are you saying just don't use the vacuum advance or what???????????????? can someone please explain exactly which way this should be???????????
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2008, 11:31 PM
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2 different methods

Guys the reason I think I'm gettin confused is cuz 454C10 says to set initail to atleast 20, but F-BIRD88 Is saying 36 Initial. Are these 2 different methods or am i misunderstanding F-BIRD88????
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2008, 09:26 AM
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At least 20 but you could run 36. But, I have my doubts it will start with 36 degrees at start up after it is warmed up.

Yes you are right, when driving down the road the vacuum advance will add to the mechanical (centrifugal) advance. And 50 to 55 degrees during light loads (high vacuum) is good for mpg.

However, your cam will not make much vacuum, so the vacuum advance may not even work. you should drive down the highway and measure the manifold vacuum.

You can connect the vacuum advance to a manifold source or a ported source.

Ported sources do not have vacuum at idle and a manifold source has vacuum at idle.

When the throttle is opened, both sources will have the same vacuum. And the more the throttle is opened, the lower the vacuum will be on both ports, so the vacuum advance will fall off (go away) under load. And revving up the engine in neutral is not an engine under load.

There are a number of ways to lock out or limit a distributors advance. Welding up the advance slots to reduce movement, or weld the slot closed to lock, or use straight wire instead of springs on the advance to lock.
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Old 10-08-2008, 09:35 PM
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loked advance

Thanks F-BIRD, that last post really elucidated the situation. I am goin to lock it out and set it to 36*initail. I am gonna see if any of the local auto stores carry a timing tape I can fix to my balancer.
I wasn't tryin to beat around the bush about doing it, I was just confused as to whether I was comprehending everything right. I can be a tad dense at times. I was reading some of your other posts about this subject via the search function and I see that you recomend the crane cams adjustable vac advance canister to a few folks in similar situations. Would this piece benifit me or should i leave well enough alone?????? I am planning on porting another pair of the stock 76cc heads I have at home to use until I buy my new ones. I have already completed the 416 305 HO heads that I talked to you about but that would make my CR around 12:1, whick Is waaayyyy higher than i wanna go. Does anyone make a plate speifically for locking the mechanical advance?? I have read about several guys using a plate with thier MSD's to lock it. I will just do it as you described for now but I was wundering for future reference. Thanks
Danny

Also If not the crane cams Vac can, I hear that NAPA has one for lower HG motors that will allow full vacuum advance between 9-11HG. Should i get this??
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2008, 12:07 AM
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plugs/gas ect.

FBIRD,
This motor has never and will never have less than 93 octane in it. The man I got it from actually ran 102 octane at the mud drags in it. I don't think It needed that much but that was before it belonged to me. Yes they are the smog heads on it and I was running the AC Delco R44TS plugs, but they were fouling so I went to the 45's. What Is the brand of the plugs that you speak of?? On my next plug change I was going to put the Accell short header plugs in it so I didn't have to fight it so much to get them out. The way it is now, I have to break the porcelin part of the plug off on the #6 cylinder just to be able to get it out. If not it takes forever. Are the plugs your talkin about short or long??

Would just a plain on/off 2 way toggle switch work OK as a spark interupt If the dizzy power wire is ran through it??? This Is what i was gonna do but i figured It ask......

Danny
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2008, 12:14 AM
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amperage

If the toggle switch will work OK, what amp size will I need, will 20 be OK or is that to much????
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2008, 01:08 AM
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The OP might not want to hear this, but if that carb really is a 650 DP ... it's also "all kinds of wrong" for this setup.

With very low vacuum, mechanical secondaries and two accelerator pumps are just going to compound the driveability problems. Fouling plugs? Yeah I can see that, too.

At the price of gas ... not to mention washing the oil right off your rings ... a vacuum secondary carb, even one from a swap meet or a trade for that DP might be worth the investment, IMHO.
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Old 10-09-2008, 04:39 AM
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set up

yea sorry bout that..... Its not a 650 DP anymore, thats what was on there but I have a different on on there now. Its a holley 80457 600cfm Hi-perf electric choke. I have a dual feed 750 holley vac. secondary to use but i gotta get a new base plate for it. The gremlins that live in my garage broke the corner off it while i was out.
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