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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pblackey View Post
Whoa slow down! You are still several steps away before deciding on heads.

You need to select a cam shaft (hell we don't even know if going to a retro-roller cam is in your budget yet). Once you have cam selected, then you can target a compression ratio. Then piston and head gasket and cylinder head combinations can be toyed with to achieve that number.

I would assume you are going to use a hydraulic flat tappet cam. Here would be a good starting point. The CompCams XE262H. The intake/exhaust is 218/224 duration @ .050" lift. And .462"/.469" inches of lift with 1.5:1 rocker. You would want to aim for 9.75:1 to 10:1 static compression ratio with this cam (see here for more info: http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w..._compatibility). If you run the aluminum heads and are going to run premium then you could go a little higher on the compression ratio, if you really wanted to.

Basically I would find and look for cams that have an intake valve duration of around 220 @ .050" lift. Check out the Lunati Voodoo cams as well. The more intake duration the more horsepower the cam makes at higher RPM (great for racing). Less duration means less horsepower, but more torque down low (great for street).

If you can, get some aluminum heads (many advantages over cast iron). There are some decent budget minded heads out there. The Jeg's house brand is good bang for the buck as well as the Edlebrocks. Neither are awesome, but they are good.

JEGS Small Block Chevy Cylinder Heads - JEGS

http://www.summitracing.com/search/b...make/chevrolet

In fact you can buy an entire top end kit with all the parts you need and be done with it.
Edelbrock.com - Power Package - Top End Kits - Chevy

You can look at these top end kits and use them as a guide to select and tweak your own part combinations as well.

I would also suggest flat top (not dish or dome) pistons. I would suggest hypereutectic aluminum (not cast). Forged pistons would be overkill for this motor (unless you are going to turbo/super charge or nitrous).

Pay attention to the squish distance (read this http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Quench). This is the distance from the top of the piston at TDC to bottom of the cylinder head. You want to aim for .040". This is going to impact your head gasket decision. It will mean you are going to have to get the block decked if you are going to run aluminum heads. It also means you are going to have to pay attention to the compression height of the new pistons. Rebuilder pistons are often "shorter".

Over sized bores usually start at .030". The next most common is .040", and then .060". A lot of blocks are not strong enough/good enough shape to survive with .060" over bore. The cylinder walls are too thin. It is possible but the block will need to be sonic tested and magnafluxed to find any cracks.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:33 PM
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Do you have a complete 327 motor w/ heads,intake,etc.If so,what heads & intake do you have now?A set of good rebuilt Vortecs would be a good choice.You can pick up a GOOD set from shops sometime that ppl drop off to be rebuilt & never come back.You will need a Vortec specific intake tho.Buying a set from a JY is a gamble due to cracks.A rebuilt set will have already been fluxed & pressure ckd.It can run anywhere from $50 to $75 to just get them ckd out.Summit & Scoggins Dickey have new Vortecs already setup with better springs & clearance for mild performance cams.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2013, 09:52 PM
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silver surfer
I generally decide how much power I want?can afford:::
then choose the correct head flow to achieve the goal,matching cam,CR based on cubes and RPM I want to run
NEVER: pick a cam first
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:16 PM
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Vinnie you make a lot of sense and I would agree with that approach. But he hasn't indicated a horse power level or even a budget yet. While we would all like to have a set of those 23 CNC'd Trickflow heads, I am guessing that is not feasible. If he ends up getting some random set of heads off of ebay he might end up with some pretty wild part mismatch. For some reason his ebay link isn't actually working for me...but when I go to ebay and search for "New GM Chevy SBC Cast Iron Performance Heads 175cc 59cc 1 94 1 5 Valves" I get a set of 59cc heads with angled plugs! Yikes!

New GM Chevy SBC Cast Iron Performance Heads 175cc 59cc 1 94 1 5 Valves | eBay
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Old 06-12-2013, 04:49 AM
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The heads he wuz askin about were the procomp $199 specials.They usually half way work ok after spending $$$ on remaching & fixin all the problems.They also say they work with Vortecnor,standard SBC intakes ??????
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2013, 11:35 AM
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ok ill bite on this one...i see you say you are going to use this engine for a mud bogger. for an "all around bogger" you will need strong low end torque and stock converter with about like a 3.73 rear gear at least with your 700r4, however you sill still need your rpm's to clean off your tires whene the bottom drops out. shell see 5000 rpms commonly but you will want power from down low all the way up to about the 5000 mark. if your going all out mud racing then you will want a high rpm high dollar drag engine with high stall converter then foot to floor...1st...2nd...race is over. what kind of mudding are you doing with your 4x4 long bed s-10 and what mods are done to the truck? tell us what rear gears you have which tranny and how big are your swampers? will it be trailered to the boggs or driven there? how much are you looking to spend on your engine? how do you plan to keep the beast cool after you put a stout engine in your bogger? i always liked the rotty junk yard chevy trucks at the boggs with the headers upside down with the flappers coming through the hood with no box chopped front fenders and 44 inch baja claw tires WITH chains on them. them redneck backyard budget guys show up the high dollar trucks all the time with stock or mildly warmed over engines. your sonoma with a tourquey 327 with a snorkel and some 44" claws would be quite the show im sure. show them jeep guys what a mud truck is supposed to sound like.
edited to say that this cam is a good one for a mild sbc bogger. crower 00222 hydraulic 420 series. works reall good with vortec heads.
Crower 00222 - Crower 420 Series Hydraulic Camshaft

Last edited by s-10again!; 06-12-2013 at 11:43 AM.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2013, 12:03 PM
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i would have the block mag'ed and bored .030 and decked .020. that would give you a .044 quench distance.(clearance to make certain) with this rebuild kit. dont forget your roller timing chain set. Federal Mogul Premium Engine Rebuild Kits CSMHP704-300




then get yourself a set of vortecs with a 3 angle and and intake to match the heads and carb you are using with that crower cam and a set of headers flipped upside down with farm tractor clinkers over em. run this setup with stock tourque converter 700r4 and 4.11 gears that is my recomendation for your build if it was my wallet. all this is assuming you have good ignition and carb already. hope i could help a little.
oh, and youll have to have the heads decked to 60 cc chambers to get 9-1 compression ratio.
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Old 06-12-2013, 12:36 PM
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if your on a really tight budget try some 193 casting heads decked to 60 cc's. they are swirlies but man ive seen some mud flying from trucks using those heads. ther not bad i swear!! now somebody will tell you not to use them they are junk. maybe for 500 hp they will never live up but for low rpms they are tops! you will find them on every truck in the bone yard. vortec heads have been scoured or there rusty or cracked. them 193's people wont touch em with a 10 foot pole for performance but for mudders, they are taylormade. the 305 swirl ports dont flow enough for the use yours will see. the 305 swirlies or "081's have the compression your looking for, but they cant move the air like the 350 heads. get the 193s and deck em to 60 cc's.

Last edited by s-10again!; 06-12-2013 at 12:42 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pblackey View Post
hi, my name is paul....me and my dad plan on rebuilding a 1967 327...im not very mechanicly inclined but he said he wants to put a 66 MM 202 fullie head on it and wants me to find the best cam to use.he also wants me to price out wat it wouldd cost for rings bearings gaskets lifters and new valve seals...im not sure if a regular kit will work considering the head he wants to put on it...any info will be helpfull...were putting the motor in an s10 by the way
Your father is giving you a learning lesson on hpw to take a basic bit of information i.e. "66 MM 202 fullie head" and develop some requirements and specifications as well as find this stuff.

Engine building is a complex subject for whech there are many books that will help as well a a lot of web sites.

What he is asking for in the head is the old so called Camel Hump head with 2.02 inch intakes. This valve size even in a Camel Hump is pretty rare, the usual intake is 1.94 inch. But any head rebuilding shop can enlarge the seat to take the 2.02 valve. The exhaust side is usually 1.5 or 1.55 inch, these can also be enlarged to the performance sized 1.6 inch valve. Go to this web site, they have tons of casting number information, the heads he's looking for are usually called Camel Humps they will appear over a number of years in the 1960's and 70s for 283, 327 and 350 engines. <<<< Mortec Chevy Smallblock V-8 Casting Numbers List >>>>. These heads will have 64 or close to that combustion chamber sizes the models before 1968 will not have the threaded holes to mount accessories, these typically also use the short water pump which also needs the proper damper pulley as well. There are many casting sires besides Mortec, sometimes you have to hit more than one in order to discover all the data you're looking for.

A caution you've already seen, these heads are rare, there weren't all that many to start with as they appeared on special option extra cost engines and since they are very popular the demand on this resource over the past 40 years has pretty much consumed the available quantities. They do show up on Ebay and other places but finding a good or at least rebuldable set will not
be a walk in the park. There are other production heads that are as good or better especially when ported and larger valves installed as well as World and Dart make a Stock Replacement "SR" head that is accepted by racing assocoiations as the equivalent to the Camel Hump these are accepted by all reacing organizations as such.

I'm not going to get into the bottom end yet other than to say that the compression and camshaft need to be thought of together. The point in crankshaft degrees where the intake valve is closed greatly affects the running compresson ratio which is called the Dynamic Compression Ratio. This is the Static (measured) Compression Ratio (SCR) that everyone talks about adjusted for the piston stroke that is used up to the point where the intake valve closes. It (DCR) is always lower than what people talk about when they talk compression ratio (SCR). You cannot talk about compression ratio without also addressing the piston and any volumes between it and the bottom of the head, this usually being the gasket and the gap between the piston top and the top of the block when the piston is at Top Dead Center (TDC). This gets into piston shape as dishes or domes are often used to adjust the compression ratios up and down to what the octane of the fuel will hold without detonating. The piston sellers usually have pretty good calculators for this, it is complex moton where rotary motion of the crankshaft is turned to triangulated motion of the connecting rod which leads to linear motion of the piston. The stuff algebra, geometry and trigonometry are useful for. Here's a mystery box that just lets you plug and play with some basic inputs <<<< United Engine & Machine Co. Incorporated >>>>

We can go here for days if you want to continue the discussion, there's a lot of accomplished and knowledgeable people on this site that will help you.

Bogie
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2013, 07:01 PM
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Forget the 305 exists and forget using 2.02 heads. 1.94's will give you much better torque. 202's are for more high rpm applications. Newer heads are going to cost you a little more than re-doing heads that are almost 50 years old.
As for the block, you need to first take it to a machine shop to have it inspected along with the crankshaft to find out how much you need to over-bore. .030 is usually plenty. You will end up with a 331" engine. Anything larger can lead to overheating issues. Have the crank checked and see what it needs as well. Once you know what size rings and bearings you need you can start thinking ahead to pistons, cam, heads etc.
Northern Auto Parts and Powerhouse both sell inexpensive master rebuild kits that include everything for the bottom end as well as the cam.
Someone mentioned the 262H Comp cam..I agree. Great cam. Also the 268H cam. Both will give you plenty of power, that lopey idle you are looking for and can be used with a stock torque convertor. Heads.. Look through the magazines and catalogs. lots to chose from, but as I said before, forget about the 202's.
I had a friend you had a Goodwrench engine with the 268H cam, an Edelbrock Torqer manifold and a 650 Holley with headers in a 70 Chevelle. The car had lots of power, very streetable and was highway friendly as well. (After he got rid of the 5:38 gears LOL).
My 2 cents..
Reid
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2013, 10:44 PM
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vncruiser,I would use 2.02 heads on a 283. There is a lot more to heads than just valve size.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2013, 12:16 AM
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I agree there is much more to heads than valve size. My point was for his intended use of the engine, he needs more torque than RPM in which case the 1.94 's will give him just that. The 2.02 heads are better suited for high RPM applications..This has been proven in dyno tests many times over..Just sayin'
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Old 06-15-2013, 07:00 AM
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dyno sheets

Quote:
Originally Posted by vncruiser View Post
I agree there is much more to heads than valve size. My point was for his intended use of the engine, he needs more torque than RPM in which case the 1.94 's will give him just that. The 2.02 heads are better suited for high RPM applications..This has been proven in dyno tests many times over..Just sayin'
please post a couple of those sheets.
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