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Old 07-22-2006, 04:54 AM
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Motorheads...Need help with Vortec style heads, can they just be swapped?

one of the intake manifolds I am considering for my '60 vette only works with Vortec style heads. I have a mid 70's 350cuin motor that has been turned into a 383 stroker with stock heads.

I have found some Vortec heads at Summit


Brand: Summit
Product Line: Summit Performance Vortec Cylinder Heads
Cylinder Head Style: Assembled
Cylinder Head Material: Cast iron
Cylinder Head Finish: Natural
Combustion Chamber Volume (cc): 67
CNC Machined Combustion Chamber: No
Intake Runner Volume (cc): 170cc
CNC Machined Intake Runner: No
CNC Machined Exhaust Runner: No
Intake Port Location: Standard
Exhaust Port Shape: Square
Exhaust Port Location: Standard
Spark Plug Style: Straight
Intake Valves Included: Yes
Intake Valve Diameter (in): 1.940 in.
Exhaust Valves Included: Yes
Exhaust Valve Diameter (in): 1.500 in.
Valve Springs Included: Yes
Maximum Valve Lift (in): 0.520 in.
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.250 in.
Damper Spring Included: Yes
Number of Springs Per Valve: Single
Retainers Included: Yes
Retainer Material: Steel
Locks Included: Yes
Lock Style: 7 degree
Valve Stem Seals Included: Yes
Valve Stem Seal Style: Umbrella
Rocker Arm Studs Included: Yes
Rocker Arm Nut Thread Size: 3/8-24 in.
Rocker Arms Included: No
Rocker Arm Nuts Included: No
Guideplates Included: No
Valve Cover Mounting Style: Centerbolt
Accessory Bolt Holes Drilled: Yes
Valve Guides Included: Yes
Valve Guide Material: Bronze
Valve Seats Machined: Yes
Valve Seat Machine Style: 3-angle
Valve Seat Material: Ductile iron
Steam Holes Drilled: No
Oiling Style: Through pushrod
Machined for O-Ring: No
Heat Crossover: No
Quantity: Sold individually.
Notes: Features ductile iron seats on exhaust ports only for use with unleaded gas. Machine work must be done to accommodate guideplates.

Cylinder Head, Vortec, Cast Iron, Assembled, 67cc Chamber, 170cc Intake Runner, Chevy, Small Block, Each


Will I be able to just take my old heads off and put these on and still use my rocker arms and push rods? Or do I need to invest in new there as well? I am trying to get a handle on how much this conversion will cost and the heads are required to make the EFI that I am looking at work.

There must be some motorheads out there that will know.....

note, my maximum lift of my cam is about .484 , so the valve springs will be fine from what I can tell.

thanks, Herb

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Old 07-22-2006, 07:06 AM
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Vortecs are not for that cam. Vortecs will only take a .450 lift without a little machining, but you could machine them to work with lifts up to .500 I think
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Old 07-22-2006, 07:39 AM
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re:Motorheads...Need help with Vortec style heads, can they just be swapped?

pushrods are the same but you need self-aligning rocker arms, because the retainers are different, it shouldn't be hard find a used set. This is if you don't have roller rockers w/ guides on the pushrods, you might be ok w/ that set up. I just know the stock rocker arms will not interchange.
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Old 07-22-2006, 08:38 AM
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The summit heads you are looking at are modified for .520 lift. New self aligning rockers are not too expensive from GM. Used are even cheaper. Mid 80's,I believe, and later heads have them. How big are the chambers on your current heads? If they are 76 cc, you will raise comp ratio close to a point by using 67 cc heads. That would be my biggest concern. Edelbrock e-200 heads have the same pattern as vortec and are aluminum, which would negate the problem of raised compression. It sounds like a pretty efficient setup you are going after. Post back and let us know how it turns out.
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Old 07-22-2006, 11:29 AM
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heres some info: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/ho...458/index.html

http://www.sdpc2000.com/search.asp?s...eads&doquery=1

look under site index for heads
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/fram...block50th.html






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Old 07-22-2006, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA1
The summit heads you are looking at are modified for .520 lift. New self aligning rockers are not too expensive from GM. Used are even cheaper. Mid 80's,I believe, and later heads have them. How big are the chambers on your current heads? If they are 76 cc, you will raise comp ratio close to a point by using 67 cc heads. That would be my biggest concern. Edelbrock e-200 heads have the same pattern as vortec and are aluminum, which would negate the problem of raised compression. It sounds like a pretty efficient setup you are going after. Post back and let us know how it turns out.
you are spot on!!!! I went out and pulled the valve cover and from the head casting number, it is a 3932441. The specs say that is came out of a '69 or '70 motor and had 76cc chambers.

For casting number look-up here is a link
http://www.mortec.com/castnum.htm

The block that I have is a 3970014 casting number and it came out of a 70-76 vehicle. So all said, it looks like my motor came out of a '70 that was a 350. Now it has been stroked to be a 383.

I will check on the Edelbrock e-200 heads, I am trying to not get too out of line as this conversion is a big expense side track for me, but I really like how it looks.



"Arizona Speed and Marine has developed a new small block injection system based on our very popular Superjet system. This system utilizes a custom manifold designed for early Corvettes and other applications with low hood lines."

I am told that for EFI to work it needs a certain amount of vacuum and that a cam that is too wild will not generate enough.

My cam has a lift at the valve of intake .465, duration 290 and exhaust .488 300. Anyone know how to find out how much vacuum that will or will not generate?
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Old 07-22-2006, 03:27 PM
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by the way, this is what it is going into....



and here is the chassis, took the body of the frame and started fresh with a powdre coated frame, add a Ford 9" rear w/posi 3.55, coil over shocks and rear disc brakes. Add in a rack and pinion steering, coil over shocks for the front and front disc brakes along with the 383 stroker and a Tremec 5 speed TKO600 for good measure.



I have never done anything like this before, this is my FIRST project and I am having a ball, but don't really know a lot so I end up asking a lot of questions to get help and figure out what to do next.

Anything you guys can do to assist is really appreciated!!!

regards, Herb
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Old 07-22-2006, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USA1
The summit heads you are looking at are modified for .520 lift. New self aligning rockers are not too expensive from GM. Used are even cheaper. Mid 80's,I believe, and later heads have them. How big are the chambers on your current heads? If they are 76 cc, you will raise comp ratio close to a point by using 67 cc heads. That would be my biggest concern. Edelbrock e-200 heads have the same pattern as vortec and are aluminum, which would negate the problem of raised compression. It sounds like a pretty efficient setup you are going after. Post back and let us know how it turns out.
I looked at Summit, can't find Edelbrock E-200 heads....where can I find them??????
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Old 07-22-2006, 03:49 PM
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did some searching and found at JEGs....

I think this is the E-200 that you were talking about, but it has 64cc combustion ports, not the 76cc combustion ports that are stock on my motor today. If the compression ratio is bumped up a point, I need to understand what the down side of all of that is.......HELP!!!!


Performer RPM E-TEC 200 Aluminum Cylinder Heads


SB-Chevy 302-400ci Performer RPM E-TEC Aluminum Cylinder Head
200cc Intake Ports
64cc Combustion Chambers
2.020'' Int/1.600'' Exh Valves
1.460'' Valve Springs, .575'' Max Lift
3/8'' Rocker Studs
Assembled, Sold Individually

350-60989
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Old 07-23-2006, 12:02 PM
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ttt back top.....
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Old 07-23-2006, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstgear
I think this is the E-200 that you were talking about, but it has 64cc combustion ports, not the 76cc combustion ports that are stock on my motor today. If the compression ratio is bumped up a point, I need to understand what the down side of all of that is.......HELP!!!!
Not many downsides as long as you can run on pump gas. My compression on my 383 is 10.5:1 and I have no problems with 93 octane.

However, I am surprised no one has commented on your decision making process. I am no expert, that's for sure. But to choose heads based on what intake you have picked out seems a bit strange. Kinda like all those guys that choose a cam based on the way it sounds. Now there's nothing wrong with using Vortecs. I have them on my 383 and make 461 HP and 463 TQ. But you should chose heads based on your goals and then decide on an intake from there.

What intake do you have picked out that has narrowed down your choices? Also, what cam do you have picked out?
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Old 07-23-2006, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 72Orange
Not many downsides as long as you can run on pump gas. My compression on my 383 is 10.5:1 and I have no problems with 93 octane.

However, I am surprised no one has commented on your decision making process. I am no expert, that's for sure. But to choose heads based on what intake you have picked out seems a bit strange. Kinda like all those guys that choose a cam based on the way it sounds. Now there's nothing wrong with using Vortecs. I have them on my 383 and make 461 HP and 463 TQ. But you should chose heads based on your goals and then decide on an intake from there.

What intake do you have picked out that has narrowed down your choices? Also, what cam do you have picked out?
When I started this project I had no intention of doing EFI, but the more I got into the project the more I have thought that everyone runs carbs, but not everyone has EFI in their early Corvettes.

When I started, I took the motor to a shop and had them make a stroker out of it, and that was before I had decided to do a lot of other things with the car, including going all out for a body off frame up project.

Yes, if I had it to do over I would pick a few different things to do, but the cards have already been dealt and I can either play them the way the are or really shift gears and start with a whole other motor. I think I would really be unside down in the motor if I did that.

At one point I thought about going this route....when I thought that a carb was not enough flash in the motor area. So i was looking at this intake....





But I got a little worried about support for it and thought that perhaps Arizona Speed and Marine had some cool stuff, and here is what they have that is retro back to early FI for Corvettes but outfitted with the latest controls.



But the AS&M EFI needs Vortec heads, and that is how I ended up asking about Vortec heads. My motor is already all put together with a mid range cam and the 383 stroker. This is one of those cases of "while I am at it, I might as well", and you can name it, that is how this project has gone. When I am done I will be way upside down in this car, but I have decided to build it like I want it, with no regrets....hence the questions I am asking....so if you can hlep to steer me in the right direction, that would be great. This is my first project car that I have evre done and I have made some mistakes for sure, which usually means spending way too much money and then having to double back and redo what I just had done. Live and learn.

Cam is rated at valve with intake .465 and exhaust .488 lift with 1.5 rocker arms

Cam timing at 0.050 intake 224 and exhaust 234 duration.

So any thoughts or comments would be GREAT!!!


regards, Herb
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Old 07-23-2006, 07:34 PM
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I gotcha ... it isn't just the intake... it's an entire induction system. That makes sense then.

That being the case, I would get a set of vortecs from Scoggins Dickey that are modified for the extra lift. That's what I have and couldn't be happier. Here's a link to their kit that includes an intake (I'm sure you can delete the intake since you don't need it). Can't beat the price.
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Old 09-09-2006, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
Vortecs are not for that cam. Vortecs will only take a .450 lift without a little machining, but you could machine them to work with lifts up to .500 I think
ones i bought from gm performance parts will take .475 lift
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Old 09-09-2006, 05:55 PM
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firstgear,


thats one sweet project ! does the GM FastBurn heads run the vortec intake ?

Part # SD8060RA
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3539...oller-Cams.htm


look here for cylinder head index
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/fram...block50th.html


I would look at GM L31 Vortec Heads & GM Fast Burn Heads






Mustangsaly
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