mounting rod-ends on an angle - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Suspension - Brakes - Steering
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2007, 10:40 AM
bet on black's Avatar
hotrodder 4 life
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: houston, tx
Age: 33
Posts: 169
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
mounting rod-ends on an angle

i am building a 3-link rear suspension for my '59 chevy apache and i had a couple questions.

my lower links will be converging, at an angle of 11 degrees. can i mount the axle brackets (and frame brackets maybe) parallel (with the frame, not the links), and let the rod-ends make up the angle?

it would be much easier than fabbing axle brackets to mount on an angle.

the rear will be laterally constrained by a panhard. i don't know how much side to side movement will be, but it shouldn't be much at all with a 30" PHB.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2007, 11:28 AM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 69
Posts: 7,355
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 47
Thanked 149 Times in 141 Posts
No....and with a bevel square it is just a matter of making an angle cut in your brackets to have them line up..

Sam
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2007, 11:35 AM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,918
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
No....and with a bevel square it is just a matter of making an angle cut in your brackets to have them line up..
Sam,

If Heim style rod ends are used isn't this doable?
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2007, 11:43 AM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Many of those heim type rod ends have a range of operation of about 17 to 25 degrees.

Don't use up half of your range of motion to accomodate your mounts.

When they're misaligned they wear faster also.

If they are rubber or urethane then they really need to be straight on, even more so tha with heim type ends.


later, mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2007, 11:51 AM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 69
Posts: 7,355
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 47
Thanked 149 Times in 141 Posts
For one it is a matter of craftsmanship and like Mikey said it does not pay off to use up your allowable travel in those things..

Sam
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2007, 02:02 PM
johnsongrass1's Avatar
Race it, Don't rice it!
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Columbia, Mo
Age: 38
Posts: 4,080
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
I disagree totally.

11 degree's is fine for a Heim. I use more than that in several racecars I had over the years and I see no difference in wear from one to the other. The PHB at 30" pretty darn much eliminates all the lateral movement of the rear axle when the axle bumps and rebounds.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2007, 05:43 PM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,918
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneMoreTime
No....and with a bevel square it is just a matter of making an angle cut in your brackets to have them line up..
Next time I have to make angled brackets I'm inviting you over for the weekend OMT. I have a devil of a time even THINKING about how to make these up from scratch. I guess I just don't understand the process you are describing. I faced the dilemma on my current chassis and finally ended up just going with straight brackets and heims.

I'd love to see some pics of your technique.
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2007, 07:58 PM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 69
Posts: 7,355
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 47
Thanked 149 Times in 141 Posts
It is in my journal under making "Z's" layout the or draw the part full scale and then "pickup" the angles using a carpenters bevel square..use the bevel square to set your angles on your saw and there you go..sometimes if the part calls for it I use my rosebud torch and a vise and bend it to shape..using the bevel square to establish and measure my angles..

this technique comes from boat building..

Sam
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2007, 08:13 PM
powerrodsmike's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Make a fiberglass fan shroud
Last journal entry: Next.. ..Bagging the king B (barge)
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: gilroy, california
Age: 53
Posts: 4,108
Wiki Edits: 161

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsongrass1
I disagree totally.

11 degree's is fine for a Heim. I use more than that in several racecars I had over the years and I see no difference in wear from one to the other. The PHB at 30" pretty darn much eliminates all the lateral movement of the rear axle when the axle bumps and rebounds.

My experience differs from yours.

I get cars in my shop with heim type ends that are mounted using up all of their range of motion. When they bind, they definatly wear more than if they are mounted properly. Sometimes all they need is the misalignment spacers to keep them from binding.

Not all heims are created equally. You don't know if the ends that bet on black is using will even accomodate that much misalignment.

I've seen some economy rod ends in the 5/8- 3/4 sizes that will only move 14-16*.

In a 3 link on the street there will be twisting as well as up and down.

Given the opportunity to make a mount properly, I would.

I'll agree, staying within the designed range of misalignment should not make a rod end wear significantly faster, but IMO there is no reason to use up your range of motion just to save some fabrication time.

We don't even know what rod ends he is using. If it were me I wouldn't run heim type ends on the street anyway.

Later, mikey
__________________
my signature lines...not really directed at anyone in particular..

BE different....ACT normal.

No one is completely useless..They can always be used as a bad example
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2007, 09:01 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Yackandandah.Australia.
Age: 52
Posts: 641
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
One thing i think is very important here is that the retaing bolts or pins should remain at 90 degrees to the link, otherwise the bolt gets sideloaded more frequently and will oval the bolt holes and wear the bolts in short order. Yup, seen it on a poorly made 4 link rear.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 02:27 PM
bet on black's Avatar
hotrodder 4 life
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: houston, tx
Age: 33
Posts: 169
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i plan on using these stage-2 rod ends:

http://www.bulletproofsteering.com/rodendspecs.html

21 degrees of articulation each way, grade 9 rated

the side-loading of the bolts makes sense, i hadn't thought about that.

now to figure out how to make angled brackets...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2007, 05:24 PM
home brew's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Body and exterior tips Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pense, Sk, Canada
Age: 68
Posts: 7,050
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Check out powerrodsmike's Photo Album pages two and three for some ideas on mounting four bars:

http://www.hotrodders.com/gallery/sh...p?ppuser=25754
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 09:05 AM
bet on black's Avatar
hotrodder 4 life
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: houston, tx
Age: 33
Posts: 169
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
thanks, but i am doing a converging, offset 3-link, like this:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	3-link.JPG
Views:	238
Size:	87.0 KB
ID:	19407  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 10:55 AM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 69
Posts: 7,355
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 47
Thanked 149 Times in 141 Posts
If you draw that diagram out full size on a sheet of plywood you can then pick up all your dimensions and angles directly from the drawing that you have made..This is a very helpful old school method that works great for us computer challenged guys..

Sam
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 06:18 PM
techinspector1's Avatar
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Last wiki edit: DynoSim combinations Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hemet, California, USA
Age: 72
Posts: 12,931
Wiki Edits: 326

Thanks: 758
Thanked 1,004 Times in 844 Posts
Whenever I have to do a project like this, I cut up a cardboard box and use scissors and an X-acto knife to fashion the pieces that will fit together to make the mount. Use masking tape to tape each flat piece together until you have it right. Then disassemble your piece and lay the flats down on a piece of 0.188" flat stock to cut them out.

By the way, the design of the Panhard bar is not ideal. It should be as long as is physically possible to fit on the truck. All the way to the backing plate on one side and past the frame on the other side. Again, make up pieces of cardboard to fashion mounts. Also, it should be level at ride height, not angled up as you have shown.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Suspension - Brakes - Steering posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pinion Angles and Driveline Setup for the Street Centerline Suspension - Brakes - Steering 38 04-21-2014 01:51 PM
Need longer rod ends. Can anyone help? 23TRex Suspension - Brakes - Steering 4 02-26-2006 03:34 PM
engine mounting angle? mike bryan Engine 3 11-12-2004 05:19 PM
6 inch rod hp gains mychevystang Engine 41 10-04-2004 02:58 PM
Tie rod ends (converted GM to rack) Andym Suspension - Brakes - Steering 3 08-29-2003 03:38 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.