To much head for my 327 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 09:28 PM
BOOMER SOONER
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 39
Posts: 243
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
To much head for my 327

Bought a set of Brodix track 1 heads for my 327 chevy. They will probably be to much head for my engine. I would like to trade them for a different set if anyone is interested please email gen1supernova@yahoo.com They are new bare heads only taken out of box to inspect. Open to trade for good iron heads or lesser aluminum heads. Thanks

Shawn

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2009, 10:05 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 612
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacksaw
Bought a set of Brodix track 1 heads for my 327 chevy. They will probably be to much head for my engine. I would like to trade them for a different set if anyone is interested please email gen1supernova@yahoo.com They are new bare heads only taken out of box to inspect. Open to trade for good iron heads or lesser aluminum heads. Thanks

Shawn
Never mind, they only come in 220CC. yep. too much head.

I thought they came in 180s. I was thinking of the race rites.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 11:04 AM
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 

Last journal entry: PICTURE TEST
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: york pa
Age: 52
Posts: 2,795
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
heads

What is the intended use of this engine???

What are the rest of the spec's for the engine????


K
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 11:29 AM
BOOMER SOONER
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Oklahoma
Age: 39
Posts: 243
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
K star, I have a 1970 350 block, 1968 327 crank and rods, forged TRW flat top slugs, with 4 valve reliefs (9.18.1 comp with 64cc head). As far as use, it is not a daily driver, and I want it to run on pump gas. I have a new Holley 650 hp street carb. Intake has not been purchased as well as cam and lifters. The heads are Brodix T1 221cc intake runners with 67cc comb chambers, 2.08/1.6 valves. I bought them because I got a good deal on them. I figured that I could trade them or sell them and get what I need if they were to much for the little 327. Oh, the block is .060 bored. Is that enough info? Thanks

Shawn
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 11:42 AM
racecar100's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tennessee
Age: 53
Posts: 255
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
If you can find # 7 or 8 Brodix heads wil work fine on your 327.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 11:47 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 8,679
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 17
Thanked 281 Times in 261 Posts
for a daily driver they're a little overkill. Theother option is to run a small dome, get a solid flat tappet cam, and run 4.56 gears with a 3,000 stall.... Spinning a 327 to 7500 RPM doesn't sound liek too bad of an idea.

From where you're sitting I'd look at some good used Vortec's witha spring swap- should run you about $250 and suit that application really well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 12:06 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,172
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
I'd run them on ebay with a reserve and buy now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 12:08 PM
F-BIRD'88's Avatar
Yada Yada Yada
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,542
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 331 Times in 328 Posts
Keep the heads and supercharge it. You won't be disapointed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 12:23 PM
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 

Last journal entry: PICTURE TEST
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: york pa
Age: 52
Posts: 2,795
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
heads

How about the weight of the car??? and what transmission.

Are you sure about the 220 cc runners??? I am not near my Brodix book but i am thinking they are smaller then that.


There is so much more to how a head works on an engine then runner size...

I am about to start a wizzing match but i would run them. If they are out of the box ports with no work on them. I just had a set of track I's on the bench a few months ago. The numbers ( air speed /cfm) show that they would be a good head for your set up, again if they are stock un-ported heads.

Here is something for all of us to ponder????? What makes a head "TO BIG" for a given CI????? The answer is not found in any magazine write up, so think about it before you answer.


Keith
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 12:33 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 8,679
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 17
Thanked 281 Times in 261 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-star
How about the weight of the car??? and what transmission.

Are you sure about the 220 cc runners??? I am not near my Brodix book but i am thinking they are smaller then that.


There is so much more to how a head works on an engine then runner size...

I am about to start a wizzing match but i would run them. If they are out of the box ports with no work on them. I just had a set of track I's on the bench a few months ago. The numbers ( air speed /cfm) show that they would be a good head for your set up, again if they are stock un-ported heads.

Here is something for all of us to ponder????? What makes a head "TO BIG" for a given CI????? The answer is not found in any magazine write up, so think about it before you answer.


Keith
As you stated its not all about runner volume. The smaller the runners with the same air flow the better your power will be (in general). This doesn't apply to everything all the time.

I think all of us would agree that 220 runners belong on a 383 at minimum if you're talking about street engines. And you wouldn't try to run 160's on a 400 without a lot of work unless it was a truck engine or something like that.

(I want to get my Vortec's out and see where those runners are at now, probably around 185-190, I think they'll be well suited to my 350 plans.)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 12:57 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,885
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Agreed Kieth. Too much hogwash AFR marketing garbage getting reposted as some sort of gospel fact with absolutely no basis of actual support behind the keyboard.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 612
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick WI
Agreed Kieth. Too much hogwash AFR marketing garbage getting reposted as some sort of gospel fact with absolutely no basis of actual support behind the keyboard.
Straight from the AFR marketing handbook. AFR has a marketing department I am jealous of, I've been dispelling their myths for a year or more now. It is refreshing to see that there are still people who think clearly and don't drink the Kool Aid. FWIW, whatever you read in a magazine is bought and paid for advertising. There are very few articles that give information. They exists, but they are few and far between.

Small runners big flow making more power is a MYTH. Here's why, something I wrote a while back:


Looking above we see that there is a great deal of effort put into not only how much air could be pulled through the port, but mostly, how it will get through the port (that’s what we are really working on, getting air into the engine during actual operation). You must always remember that a flow bench is only measuring how easily air can be pulled into the cylinder, not how much WILL be pulled into the cylinder during operation. This means that when comparing cylinder head sizes the most important aspect as the SHAPE of the port and how that shape relates when viewing flow all the way to the combustion chamber. Airflow must be controlled, and hence the shape and measurements of the port are far more important that just looking at restriction versus runner size. Again; a flow bench does not measure how much air will be pulled through the port during operation, it measures how easily it can be pulled though in isolation. When looking at a port design one must look to see what the airflow demands will be; they also must look to what type and how much fuel will be induced into the mix, what RPM the engine will be operating at and lastly, must look past the port into the combustion chamber and into the intake manifold. Significant hp can be gained or lost with or without the proper entrance and filling of the cylinder. A cutting edge cylinder head not only has low restriction, a proper shape for tuning purposes (has to control the velocity along with cutting back irregular flow), a combustion chamber to promote flow (how a cylinder is filled is as important as how much is filled); it has all of the above working together and then promote proper flame travel once the cylinder is ignited (another very complicated aspect of how the engine makes its power, valve and spark plug placement and combustion chamber shape have to consider this as well as how much air can pass through it)!

Last edited by Jsup; 01-14-2009 at 01:36 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:33 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 8,679
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 17
Thanked 281 Times in 261 Posts
One thing to note is that while the 220's may not be optimal for a smaller cam, they would probably still run just fine. There's a difference between optimal and acceptable. Most engines are built with something that makes them less than optimal, but they're still plenty fun to drive and perfectly acceptable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:42 PM
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 

Last journal entry: PICTURE TEST
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: york pa
Age: 52
Posts: 2,795
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
heads

The old AFR marketing machine....If they spent as much money designing a port that worked as they did on advertising they would have a good head..

The last set i did rattled the bench so hard the dog ran away, the kids started screaming and the cops showed up...

JSUP, there are a few guys here that actually have done some head work R&D, and not bought into the magazine fluff....Not many but a few..


Keith
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2009, 01:45 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 612
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-star
The old AFR marketing machine....If they spent as much money designing a port that worked as they did on advertising they would have a good head..

The last set i did rattled the bench so hard the dog ran away, the kids started screaming and the cops showed up...

JSUP, there are a few guys here that actually have done some head work R&D, and not bought into the magazine fluff....Not many but a few..


Keith
GREAT POST......

Ah, home......

Why can't I go anywhere else on the internet and hear this stuff?

If you've done this a time or two you can hear what a head sounds like, as you say, on the bench and know that it's right or not.

I don't trust flow benches either.
Looking at cylinder head flow on a flow bench represents simply how restrictive the intake tract is. In other words, are you breathing through a straw or a garden hose… Unfortunately for everyone that develops engine combinations; air isn’t simply sucked through the intake tract. As we have all seen at some point or another, things like the intake valve closing, pressure bleeding through the ever so slightly opened intake valve cause what is commonly referred to as reversion. This is a result of your average Joe’s putting a name on something they see and don’t quite understand. The “reversion” is actually a pulse of pressure that is part of the longitudinal wave traveling back up the intake track. You see it push back through the carburetor when the timing of the event (actually the tuning of the intake tract) is off and the pulse is passing too far up the intake tract. Now this brings us a little bit into this notion of tuning this longitudinal wave to force air into the cylinder. This can be done but physics requires that the cross sectional area, length, and velocity of the pulse, be precisely matched to achieve this affect (and it will not be throughout a broad range). Another important point is that air cannot compress (at any velocity we will find inside an intake tract) so it must speed up or slow down with changes in cross sectional area. This represents the biggest shortcoming of the flow bench. The bench does not measure velocity, nor does it attempt to predict or model any of the increases or decreases encountered throughout the intake tract and how they are affecting flow. This means that all too often an intake tract is ineffective at controlling intake velocities throughout the entire operating range for the particular engine, throughout the entire intake tract (both are a big issue). This also leads to problems when working with the wet flow development. The concept of wet flow makes sense to most people; fuel is atomized into the intake tract and needs to stay evenly distributed all the way into the combustion chamber. Many experienced designers have found the all too common problem associated with converting a design from gasoline to alcohol (so say, taking a large circle track head that was designed for alky and trying to run it on a gasoline engine). Since we have different mixtures associated with the fuels the density and overall saturation changes as well. An even bigger problem is once airflow becomes a problem upstream the entire tract is not designed in an effort to correct this (it simply stays somewhat messed up and depending on how the rest of the tract is design can potentially get worse as it flows through another area). The typical result is that irregular airflow causes problems with the mixture and subsequently, causes problems with the proper air/fuel mixture getting into the cylinder.

These are all just the tip of ice burg so to speak; if you wish to test your ability to stay awake I would do what I did, talk with a few engineers that work with these concepts. They will shoot you straight and give you all (sometimes more) that you can handle. Now, the problem is testing on a flow bench does not give any insight into any of this, causing many to reach out for other possibilities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Retorque Head Bolts--New Thread Sealer? Turbo-CBX Engine 5 01-12-2009 10:28 AM
What about this head on my 327 Hacksaw Engine 3 10-06-2008 05:41 PM
Building A 302 Chevy Scorpio Shaping Flow Hotrodding Basics 6 01-16-2007 05:55 AM
Valve Stem Angles, Do they Matter? Truth or Fiction? QuenchPiston Engine 35 12-28-2006 10:11 AM
cylinder head cracked?!?!?!?! Blob Engine 4 01-24-2005 06:12 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.