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Old 10-12-2005, 10:05 PM
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Muncie parts

Hey I have an M-21 and was wondering where a good parts source is. My problem is on a 3rd gear upshift I get a grind so I'm thinking the syncros are going bad. Also can anyone recomend a good book on rebuilding one of these transmissions as I do plan on doing this myself.
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Old 10-13-2005, 05:36 AM
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For parts and an excellent video on rebuilding the Muncie you can't beat 4speeds.com. Be careful about buying small parts or rebuild kits off Ebay. Some do not contain the bearings and some that do have bearings have low quality bearings. A good quality Muncie rebuild kit will cost you about $100. I highly recommend you buy the video from 4speeds.com it is well worth the money.

Vince
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Old 10-13-2005, 06:38 AM
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Parts

Give larry at D & L a call,

http://www.dandltransmission.com/

I have used his kits in the last 50 or so muncies i have re-built...Good parts and good service... Like vince stated the internet kit can be a real pain because alot of them are incomplete....

If you call Larry tell him Keith from K-star automotive sent you....

I also stock the re-build kits...

Keith
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:12 PM
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Do you guys think the third gear syncro would be to blame for this problem. It only happens when I go from fourth gear to third gear, no other gears have any problems and second to third doesn't grind at all.
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:17 PM
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problem

Does your shifter have adjustable stops on it???

Did this problem just show uo out of the blue??? or was it a gradual thing???

Keith
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NovaSS350
Do you guys think the third gear syncro would be to blame for this problem. It only happens when I go from fourth gear to third gear, no other gears have any problems and second to third doesn't grind at all.

Could be as simple as an adjustment, or could be a worn synchro, worn engagement slider, or worn third gear engagment cogs. Hard to tell unitl you eliminate the simplest thing, proper shifter adjustment, and clutch adjustment. My guess would be a synchro as third and fourth synchros were all I ever screwed up. The power shift from first to second was always dead on, third was a little tougher.

Vince
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:48 PM
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shifter

Vince. I need to show you my (pat pending) shifter adjustmet.....

You will be lifting 3rd as easy as second!!!!!! L.O.L.

All kidding aside you can do a small trick with the shifter and make 3 rd gear a breeze....

Keith
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Old 10-13-2005, 01:31 PM
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Its a hurst competition plus shifter and its done it in the three years that I have had the car. The clutch adjustment isnt the problem as I am getting a complete release and all the components are new. I am guessing that it is an internal problem because i have reajusted the stops after have the shifter off and the problem didn't change.
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Old 10-13-2005, 07:47 PM
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The Hurst Competition Plus is about the best, and a breeze to adjust. My guess is you have a synchro problem.

Vince
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Old 10-16-2005, 11:23 AM
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Thanks guys Im sure I'll have more questions this winter when I tear into it.
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Old 10-17-2005, 03:32 AM
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Double declutch from 4th to 3rd, if it improves shift quality it's a synchro.
Don't use M22 synchro's as they are larger diameter.
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Old 10-17-2005, 09:17 PM
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Downshifting is harder on synchronizer rings than upshifting. Blip the throttle as you're shifting from 4th to 3rd (or to any lower gear for that matter) and it may stop the grinding. It will also make the new synchros last longer.
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Old 10-17-2005, 11:31 PM
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If it is a syncro, why dosn't it grind on the second to third shift?
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Old 10-18-2005, 03:26 AM
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Before synchros were in common use, most people could upshift smoothly, but only some could downshift as well. A synchroniser assy is only a gear brake, creating drag to equalise gear speeds. If the speeds match the change is smooth . If you get the chance, try driving a semi. You will have to match gear speeds yourself as there are no synchros. If, you learn to shift clutchless you can skip gears going up by using the engine brake to pull back rpm, but you will have to give it a rev between gears going down.
These skills will make you a smoother driver, help in powertrain diagnosis and allow you to fit straight cut gears to annoy your neighbours and shift twice as fast.
It's also cool to shift clutchless in traffic jams - keeps your left leg alive.
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Old 10-18-2005, 10:56 PM
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A synchronizer accelerates or decelerates the input shaft/clutch disc assembly. On a downshift, the assembly has to be accelerated, while on an upshift, it needs to slow down. Since friction, drag within the clutch, and gear oil resistance (like wind resistance only thick & smelly) all tend to slow things down, an upshift is much easier for a marginal synchronizer to perform.

Dry-shifting (shifting without using the clutch) is a good skill to master, because that's exactly what will get you to the house if your clutch refuses to disengage for some reason or another (broken fingers, linkage failure, etc.). It is NOT something you want to do on a regular basis, however, because it will cause your synchronizer sleeves & shift forks to wear out prematurely.
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