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Old 07-16-2006, 02:44 PM
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muratic acid to clean water jackets?

I just got a block back from the machine shop that was hot tanked, fluxed, bored, you know the usual stuff. the problem I have is with all the free floating debis, and build up in the water jackets. I talked to a "racer" bud of mine and he said to run a solution of muratic acid and water through all the holes to dissolve the funk and wash it out. I'm kinda concerned about the corrosiveness and the possibility of damaging the machine shops work. Has anyone ever tried or heard of doing this before? Anyone have any other ideas?
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Old 07-16-2006, 02:48 PM
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Didn't the machine shop acid dip the block to clean the rust and schtuff out of the water jackets?
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Old 07-16-2006, 03:15 PM
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yeah but I guess not long enough to dissolve all the junk in the jackets. I can scrape it loose. I blew compressed air through it and a lot of, I guess oxidized antifreeze, and gunk came out. I am almost certain that when I reassemble it a lot of this stuff will be floating around in the coolant and radiator. Should I just run it and flush the radiator after a few hundred miles or does this problem need to be addressed now?
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Old 07-16-2006, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSouthWon
yeah but I guess not long enough to dissolve all the junk in the jackets. I can scrape it loose. I blew compressed air through it and a lot of, I guess oxidized antifreeze, and gunk came out. I am almost certain that when I reassemble it a lot of this stuff will be floating around in the coolant and radiator. Should I just run it and flush the radiator after a few hundred miles or does this problem need to be addressed now?

I would absolutely install an inline filter in the upper radiator hose, and another in the hose going to the heater.

If the block is still bare, I would ask the machine shop to clean it for you. It should not have any scrapable schtuff in it. They goofed.

You might be able to get some of the schtuff out by taking it to a spray car wash and flushing high pressure wash through the core plugs, etc. Bring plenty of money.

edited: I could say that if the machinists who did the block work did not catch the mess then the quality of their machine work in general is suspect...... I could say that...... but I won't.

Last edited by xntrik; 07-16-2006 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 07-16-2006, 04:20 PM
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I would certainly take it back to the machine shop to be cleaned.....and next time would find a different shop that does things the right way.
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Old 07-16-2006, 04:27 PM
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I agree, take it back, they either rushed the cleaning or their cleaning solution is shot. It should not have that junk in it period.

Vince
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Old 07-16-2006, 04:49 PM
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any idea what the solution the machine shop uses is? It was the first and last time I will use that shop. found a lot of other problems such as no space left for honing, over ground the crank ".005", and rude as hell.

Last edited by DaSouthWon; 07-16-2006 at 04:53 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 07-16-2006, 10:56 PM
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i used a solution of boric acid for a final cleaning on my water jackets, followed by a high pressure rinse.
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Old 07-17-2006, 09:24 AM
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Take it back!! Don't accept attitude from them either. You spent good money there, now demand good service! It is your right!
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Old 07-17-2006, 11:54 AM
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muratic acid

I have used it to clean out my water jacket on my current rebuild. It worked great for me. I blocked off the water pump opening, then poured it into the top of the block with a funnel. Left it in for about a hour.

When I was done. I flushed the block with water then poured a box of baking powder/water to neutralize the acid.

I thought it came out great!
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Old 07-17-2006, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSouthWon
any idea what the solution the machine shop uses is? It was the first and last time I will use that shop. found a lot of other problems such as no space left for honing, over ground the crank ".005", and rude as hell.
Usually sulphuric acid (SI O2) or hydrocloric acid (H2 SO4) mixed about 50/50with water. Heads should be installed along with a cast iron intake manifold with gaskets. All holes should be plugged and top and bottom rad holes should be looped. Use the water pump powered by a 1/4 hp motor (1725 rpm's) with a 1:1 ratio on the pulleys. Test for leaks BEFORE putting in acid. Drain system and then put in premixed acid solution, burping out air. Do not have any copper or brass come in to contact with solution. Run through engine for 3- 4 hours. Power flush with Borax or baking soda mixed at 1 lb. to 1 gal. water for at least an hour. Flush 2 or 3 times with water. Put acid solution in heavy plastic jugs for re-use or give away to machine shop. Do not pour solution down your sewer!

Most of the crud you are finding is sand that sticks in the pores of the metal from the original sand cast of the block and heads. When doing this process, the solution along with the particles of sand picked up by the solution will wear away the irregularities found within the water jackets.

muriatic acid has about the same affect as mouth wash, very weak on steel.

Last edited by alittle1; 07-17-2006 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 07-17-2006, 04:43 PM
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Doc here,

BE advised...

ANY acid you run at this point on an assembled engine, over time, any un~Neutralized Acid MAY wreak Havoc with the whole engine ET & AL...

Acids Can damage The sender / Sensor Bourden Tube pick up ends of any in line with the water jacket..as these are Brass or Copper..

It can damage the thermostat as it too is brass or copper..It can eat the impeller on a water pump, It can eat or cause leaks in Core plugs, It can cause leaks in sealers and metal gaskets, I would avoid ACIDS If at all possible..

Do NOT use H2So4....AT ALL...under heat..It will gas...and under the smallest spark, become Explosive, (Refer: Battery overcharging)...

If you Use Hydrochloric Acid, (and I have forgotten my college chem 101..but..) There is a trick on how you mix with water..If I remember correctly, If you add water OVER the HCL, It will expand and Foam like a fizzy in a cola...and make caustic foam all over the place..

If I remember correctly, It has to be add water FIRST, then Acid over the water to make it stable..At that..I think, It ends up being H2So4..once mixed..

IMHO, I think you'd be farther ahead pulling the thermostat, and an exit point (like lower rad hose) and high pressure wash it for about an hour or so..That should get most of it..

My curiosity would be though..If the machine shop left that much in the water jackets...What does the oil system look like?? Did you pressure wash it before it was assembled, to remove machine dust? It should have been!

If you DO use acids..BE safe .. Eye/Face protection, body apron, Gloves, boots, respirator, AND NO SPARKS anywhere!

Doc
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Old 07-17-2006, 08:56 PM
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Just one question about using muratic acid, won't using this stuff cause hydrogen embrittlement to the metal it comes in contact with?????
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:04 PM
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Muriatic acid, when properly diluted, shouldn't be a problem. Pick it up at the hardware store as "brick cleaning acid". I'd mix it a little stronger than for cleaning concrete, but not much. It will get all the easily dissolved stuff out. If diluted enough leave it in a couple hours to overnight. As others mentioned, neutralize with a box of baking soda mixed in with the last flush. I'd rinse a coupel times with water first, then put the baking soda in and let sit a couple hours before flushing again. There should be no problems pouring diluted muriatic acid in a sewer or storm drain. It's not collected when cleaning brick walls! It's the weaker of the acids mentioned though. The others must be handled with more care. If you're really concerned about handling, get radiator flush solution from an auto parts store that comes with a neutralizer.
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Old 07-17-2006, 11:21 PM
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From a different perspective...

If the buildup is not that bad, you may not have to worry about it (as others mentioned above, just flush the engine with water after assembly).

Even from the factory, a new engine can have some debris from the casting process. This will usually 'settle' and not continuously cycle thru your engine. You will not need perfection in the water passages. The most important is the oil galleries and bores (cylinder and lifter).

Our typical process is to bake a block if it really gunked up, then hot tank. If it is decent, a good hot tank before and after machining works great without the need for baking.

Again, use your best judgement of how bad it is. Also, if you wanted to post any pictures, that would help.
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