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Old 01-10-2011, 10:01 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Mustang Boss 302 in 2012

Anyone check out the new Boss, 440hp 4V 302. While getting 26mpg. Which means to compete with a factory car your 350sbc has to put out 509hp and get 26mpg's, naturally aspirated... Makes you want to give up on the old heap of parts.

Hell even getting 440hp and 26 mpg's while remaining emissions legal naturally aspirated is a tall order for any gen 1 sbc.

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Old 01-10-2011, 10:46 AM
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The new Coyote 5.0 engines are bad *****. I love my 03 Mach-1, the original 4.6 was replaced with a 5.0 forged stroker, with the help of a Kenne Bell, she puts out 650hp on pump gas, but only gets 17mph. LOL
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72
Anyone check out the new Boss, 440hp 4V 302. While getting 26mpg. Which means to compete with a factory car your 350sbc has to put out 509hp and get 26mpg's, naturally aspirated... Makes you want to give up on the old heap of parts.

Hell even getting 440hp and 26 mpg's while remaining emissions legal naturally aspirated is a tall order for any gen 1 sbc.
But not for an LS series engine....which is its competitor in the market.

The new Ford "Coyote" engine is about as far as you can get technologically from a 1st Gen SBF also, ....a lot farther away than the LS is from the 1st Gen SBC.

I'm not impressed, just some more over engineered baloney typical of Ford, "let's make it 3 times more complicated than it needs to be, just to show off our engineering".
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:43 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
But not for an LS series engine....which is its competitor in the market.

The new Ford "Coyote" engine is about as far as you can get technologically from a 1st Gen SBF also, ....a lot farther away than the LS is from the 1st Gen SBC.

I'm not impressed, just some more over engineered baloney typical of Ford, "let's make it 3 times more complicated than it needs to be, just to show off our engineering".
Well I am impressed, like it or not the new horsepower wars is going to push the technology that you see on your top trim factory sports cars, hell even the daily driver 4 cylinder engines are seeing a lot of new tech. The thing that is most impressive is the relatively low cost to the consumer, it speaks volumes for manufacturing technology.

Ford would not make it more complicated that it had to be for one simple reason- cost. EAch additional part is more cost to them, but when you have a mileage crisis, restrictive epa standards, and a new horsepower war you need to pull out the bag of tricks just to be competitive.

BTW the 2011 Camaro SS has 426hp out of 6.2L...
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax305
she puts out 650hp on pump gas, but only gets 17mph.
Dude....you seriously need to raise your rear gear ratio.
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:28 PM
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Now the next problem is try and work on it when it breaks down.
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Old 01-10-2011, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
But not for an LS series engine....which is its competitor in the market.

The new Ford "Coyote" engine is about as far as you can get technologically from a 1st Gen SBF also, ....a lot farther away than the LS is from the 1st Gen SBC.

I'm not impressed, just some more over engineered baloney typical of Ford, "let's make it 3 times more complicated than it needs to be, just to show off our engineering".
I tend to agree. I've wondered what the cost is to do a complete rebuild on the Ford.
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleVision
Now the next problem is try and work on it when it breaks down.
I work for a ford dealership and can say they look 100 times easier to work on than the 4.6/5.4, especially in the f150. To remove a valve cover on a 5.4 truck you got to remove a lot of little things to get at it.But to diagnose drive ability problems could be a problem for the normal garage guys without the right tools.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:45 AM
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Here is the motor to my Mach-1. These quad cammers are great motors, BUT they are more expensive to work on. I am able to do most of the work to the motor my self. I had a shop change the engine out for me, (I'm old and lazy, but I did put the supercharger on). A lot of younger guys in my car club are very capable and they have pulled engines, changed cam, etc, etc. These engines are great, they're tuff, will turn 7200 rpm's all day long. You can data log and adjust several engine perameters on just a SCT hand held programmer. These engines burn so clean, you could eat your lunch behind the exhaust. I have four tunes saved. My street tune is for 91 craptane, 15lbs boost and 570rwhp. The other tunes are for race gas only. These engines are completely different than the old push rod style engines. Both style of engines have their pros and cons....
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax305
Here is the motor to my Mach-1. These quad cammers are great motors, BUT they are more expensive to work on. I am able to do most of the work to the motor my self. I had a shop change the engine out for me, (I'm old and lazy, but I did put the supercharger on). A lot of younger guys in my car club are very capable and they have pulled engines, changed cam, etc, etc. These engines are great, they're tuff, will turn 7200 rpm's all day long. You can data log and adjust several engine perameters on just a SCT hand held programmer. These engines burn so clean, you could eat your lunch behind the exhaust. I have four tunes saved. My street tune is for 91 craptane, 15lbs boost and 570rwhp. The other tunes are for race gas only. These engines are completely different than the old push rod style engines. Both style of engines have their pros and cons....
Your first post had me a litle confused, I thought you replaced your 4.6 w/ a small block 5.0

Glad you clarified it, that install looks awesome!
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrowhead
Your first post had me a litle confused, I thought you replaced your 4.6 w/ a small block 5.0

Glad you clarified it, that install looks awesome!
The original block was an aluminum 4.6. I had it replaced with a Livernois built forged 4.6 shortblock stroked to a 5.0. This also included a new set of FR500 heads, which they ported and polished and also added some FR500 high lift cams/valvetrain. They guarnteed the engine to 1200hp and 7500 rpm's all day long. The car is set up more for roadracing/street carving. I have all Maximum Motorsport suspension/k-member, Bilstein coilover struts/shocks and Brembo brakes. Just too much to list.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:23 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax305
The original block was an aluminum 4.6. I had it replaced with a Livernois built forged 4.6 shortblock stroked to a 5.0. This also included a new set of FR500 heads, which they ported and polished and also added some FR500 high lift cams/valvetrain. They guarnteed the engine to 1200hp and 7500 rpm's all day long. The car is set up more for roadracing/street carving. I have all Maximum Motorsport suspension/k-member, Bilstein coilover struts/shocks and Brembo brakes. Just too much to list.
Sounds like a bada55 build. I imagine it cost a small fortune.

Last edited by ap72; 01-11-2011 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72
Sounds like a ****** build. I imagine it cost a small fortune.
I have about as much into the car as what I paid for it brand new. But, what a Bad ***** car to drive on the street. My neighbor, who is a close friend, has a beautiful resto-modded silver with black stripes, 1969 z28 camaro with muncie 4 speed, 4.10 gears, etc, etc. He has a nicely built 383 in it. It just kills him that my Mach can hand him his *** any time, any where. Don't get me wrong, I love Chevys, (I have a retored 67 El Camino), but it is so funny how it just pisses him off. I'm not saying I have the fastest car on the planet, ( I have lost several races at the track), but he takes it way to serious.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:54 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax305
I have about as much into the car as what I paid for it brand new. But, what a Bad ***** car to drive on the street. My neighbor, who is a close friend, has a beautiful resto-modded silver with black stripes, 1969 z28 camaro with muncie 4 speed, 4.10 gears, etc, etc. He has a nicely built 383 in it. It just kills him that my Mach can hand him his *** any time, any where. Don't get me wrong, I love Chevys, (I have a retored 67 El Camino), but it is so funny how it just pisses him off. I'm not saying I have the fastest car on the planet, ( I have lost several races at the track), but he takes it way to serious.
. I actually like it when I get beat, I find it impressive and I figure that's a guy I need to talk to. I once saw a 03 cobra that had a dohc 5.4 with a vortec supercharger on it, guy claimed 1,000hp on race gas and from the 9 second slips I have no reason to doubt it. Those mod motors can do well under boost, but usually don't do well na.
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmax305
I have about as much into the car as what I paid for it brand new. But, what a Bad ***** car to drive on the street. My neighbor, who is a close friend, has a beautiful resto-modded silver with black stripes, 1969 z28 camaro with muncie 4 speed, 4.10 gears, etc, etc. He has a nicely built 383 in it. It just kills him that my Mach can hand him his *** any time, any where. Don't get me wrong, I love Chevys, (I have a retored 67 El Camino), but it is so funny how it just pisses him off. I'm not saying I have the fastest car on the planet, ( I have lost several races at the track), but he takes it way to serious.
But if he put the same number of $$$ into his engine as you have in yours...you'd get smoked. All you did was out-spend him in that department.

Your newer car is a lot more refined, nicer ride quality and much lower cabin noise with nice interior comfort. That's where the newer car shines.
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