Mustang Convertible Top Lift Cylinders - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2009, 05:23 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,754
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 65 Times in 63 Posts
Mustang Convertible Top Lift Cylinders

The top on my 2005 Mustang convertible lifts unevenly, and its the passenger side that lags behind. I took the pump and cylinders out yesterday and bled the air out of the system, using the directions from the shop manual, but the lift cylinder performance was not any better. The next step seems to be replacement of the weak lift cylinder, but I've found some conflicting information online.

Most online stores sell the same lift cylinder for the 2005 as they did for the 98-04, but the 2005 is a completely different body style, and the convertible top design is different. The same online shops don't even list cylinders for the 2006+ Mustang. There weren't any Ford dealer parts shops open this weekend, so I wasn't able to check with them.
Anyone know if this is the right lift cylinder for a 2005 Mustang convertible?
Ford Part#: XR3Z-7650600-AA

Also, does anyone have any other troubleshooting tips for the convertible top mechanism or hydraulics? The mechanism does not seem to be binding, but I want to make sure I check everything out while I have the back seat and trim out and have access to the mechanism.

Thanks,

Bruce

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2009, 05:48 AM
Old Fool's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: spokane,wa.
Posts: 1,347
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 8
Thanked 40 Times in 34 Posts
According to Team Ford online parts catalogue

XR3Z7650600AA $144.04 $0.00 $107.16
Electrical - Body electrical - Convertible top - Lift cylinder
Lift cylinder, mustang 1999 - 2004
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2009, 06:55 AM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Removing stuck fasteners
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Adairsville
Posts: 94
Wiki Edits: 1

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
hyd. cyl.?

Hydraulics work like electricity, it take the path of lease Resistance. I have saw flow dividers on 2 cyl. to make them work to getter, but it wasn't that accurate. I'd check for a crimp or some kind of restriction, before the dealer ship system of swapping parts till it work right. lol
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2009, 07:30 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,103
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,281
Thanked 1,124 Times in 998 Posts
Just to be sure that there isn't something binding in the top on one side, have you swapped the cylinders side for side and tested it?

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2009, 09:07 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: murfreesboro tn.
Posts: 731
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Just to be sure that there isn't something binding in the top on one side, have you swapped the cylinders side for side and tested it?

Brian
if you swap sides to test , and still not the same , i'd bet it to be needing oil at the hinges or does it have the spring cables ?
one may be broke .
but if you swap and the other side then slow , you have a bad seal in cylinder
piston .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2009, 04:25 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,754
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 65 Times in 63 Posts
Swapping lift cylinders from side to side sounds like a good idea, but not a real simple task to install the cylinders on the wrong side without disconnecting the hydraulic lines.

I called the local Ford dealer today, and they can get me the new cylinder by noon tomorrow for $130, so I went ahead and ordered it. Its the same parts number as "Old Fool" found online (XR3Z7650600AA $144.04
Lift cylinder, mustang 1999 - 2004), even though mine is a 2005 Mustang.

Even the bleeding the system was not that simple, since you need to get the cylinders lower than the motor, and then rotate the cylinders each time so they are bled with the piston up when retracting and piston down when extending. Of course you also need electricity to power the motor, and the leads reverse for each direction. I removed the complete system as a unit, then hung the cylinders down near floor level while holding the motor (connected to the car power) as high as possible. It worked, but was one of those jobs where you really need at least three hands. My wife was not interested in being my mechanic's helper.

Thanks,

Bruce
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2009, 05:55 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: murfreesboro tn.
Posts: 731
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Mustang Convertible

so when you had them out , did one move faster than the other ?
hope the new one don't try and pass or out do the good one , or you'll be out $$$ for another cylinder .
yea i ask my gal for help and get little to no help , but that might be because of a charged condenser toss her way , here CATCH .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-23-2009, 06:55 PM
Old Fool's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: spokane,wa.
Posts: 1,347
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 8
Thanked 40 Times in 34 Posts
$107.16 & 10.71 shipping if you got it from Team Ford, looks like your dealer treated you fairly.
I buy all my oem Ford parts either locally at TF pricing, or I call Bill Jenkins and have him send it to me. Always good service and fast delivery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 75gmck25
Swapping lift cylinders from side to side sounds like a good idea, but not a real simple task to install the cylinders on the wrong side without disconnecting the hydraulic lines.

I called the local Ford dealer today, and they can get me the new cylinder by noon tomorrow for $130, so I went ahead and ordered it. Its the same parts number as "Old Fool" found online (XR3Z7650600AA $144.04
Lift cylinder, mustang 1999 - 2004), even though mine is a 2005 Mustang.

Even the bleeding the system was not that simple, since you need to get the cylinders lower than the motor, and then rotate the cylinders each time so they are bled with the piston up when retracting and piston down when extending. Of course you also need electricity to power the motor, and the leads reverse for each direction. I removed the complete system as a unit, then hung the cylinders down near floor level while holding the motor (connected to the car power) as high as possible. It worked, but was one of those jobs where you really need at least three hands. My wife was not interested in being my mechanic's helper.

Thanks,

Bruce
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2009, 08:47 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,754
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 65 Times in 63 Posts
I have a follow-up and fix to my own problem. It might be useful to anyone else with a current generation Mustang convertible.

In my original post I explained how I tried to fix my convertible top uneven lift problems by replacing the lift cylinder, but it didn't work. I finally took it to a dealership that was able to point out the exact problem. However, the broken part is not available separately from Ford, and their only solution was a complete new top ($4400 for parts).

There are two tension rods (about as big around as your index finger) that go from the car body almost straight up to the back corners of the top. The function of these rods appears to be to make sure the top lowers and raises so that the glass back window folds properly. The rods do not appear to actually hold the top up, since nothing drops down when you remove them. The top pivot point of the rod is hidden by the top liner, and this is where it was binding and breaking.

I think the end of the original rod is probably thick enough already, but it has a sideways tension (bottom end is pulled toward the center of the car) that makes it bind where its riveted to the top frame. Over time this is like taking a piece of metal and bending it back and forth until it breaks. Once it does break on one side, or binds too much, your top goes up unevenly and other parts start to bind and break.

I found an article on the internet, where a poster explained how to fix the problem.
- First unbolt the rod at the bottom (#40 torx and 13mm wrench for the shoulder bolt), and grind the head off the rivet that holds the top. I was able to grind the head off the rivet by taking the inner top liner loose at the back corner (one #10 torx screw holds an elastic tensioner), holding the top and liner away from the bracket and using a dremel to grind the rivet head.
- Then have a welder repair/reinforce the end of the rod that was binding, and put in metal bushing (I had them drill the hole for a 1/2" bushing, with 3/8" inside diameter).
- Bolt it back on with a shoulder bolt at the top. A 3/8" shoulder bolt with a 1/2" shoulder length worked for me when I used two washers, but it depends on how thick the end is after the welder adds the reinforcement. I wanted to keep the end secure, but loose enough to avoid the sideways binding.

I finished the first side a few weeks ago and put it together. Then I found that the other side was also binding (the top rose unevenly for the first 6-12 inches). I took that side off this week and will take it to the welder to get reinforced.

Note - When I unbolted the bottom of that 2nd (undamaged) support, it popped about 4 inches over to the side, just due to the sideways tension on the rod. This is what is making the bracket bind, and making the top mechanism operate so unevenly.

Bruce
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2009, 11:29 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Hi Bruce,

I am experiencing a similar issue with my 04 Cobra.

I am wondering if you took any pictures throughout this process so I can better understand how this part was binding and how to diagnose this as being my issue?

How is yours now that you have fixed both sides?

Here is a link to a thread I started on another board talking about my problem: http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...ggestions.html I'd appreciate any direction you can provide after taking a look at that post.

Thanks!

Last edited by SLOWBRA; 08-22-2009 at 11:35 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-22-2009, 08:58 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,754
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 65 Times in 63 Posts
It sounds like you have the identical problem that I have with my convertible top, and you have gotten the same suggestions.

I replaced the lift cylinder on the slow side, and repaired the end of the tension rod on both sides. The first couple of times it seemed to be fixed and operating normally, but then started to lag again on the passenger side. I had spent so much time troubleshooting and fixing it, I decided I would let it sit for awhile before I go back and look for other problems. Its also extremely hot here (every day over 100), and working inside the confines of the back seat is not much fun

When I fixed the passenger side tension rod, I did notice that the rod was under quite a bit more tension than the driver's side - like the rod was a little too long or the mounting point on the body was a little too high. I had to put the top about 1/2 way down before the holes would line up enough to put the repaired rod back on.

I assume I still have one of two problems:
1- The top frame is still binding somewhere on the passenger side during the first few inches of lift. If I pull up on that side manually (while pushing the button) until it gets about 8-10" up, from that point it will lift normally. It always goes down evenly.
2 - The hydraulic system has problems that were not fixed by replacing the cylinder. I used sealer for hydraulic fittings on the threads, and I bled the system using the Ford procedure. There are no signs of any leaks. I could also try swapping the cylinders right to left, but that's more work than I want to do right now. Replacing the pump is also possible, but a new pump is very expensive.

I have pictures of what I fixed, but I don't know how much it will apply to a 2004. I think they made quite a few changes in 2005 when they went to the new body and the glass rear window in the convertible top.
If you want the pictures, just send me a PM with your email and I'll send them to you.

Bruce
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2009, 07:31 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 4
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the information Bruce.

I sent you a Pm with my email address. Please send pics so I can understand more about these tension rods.

I swapped my cylinders from side to side and it didn't make a difference on mine so not sure how much it will help you.

May I will try and consult a local convertible top shop to see if they have any advice as well since it's all apart.

Thanks for your info and help. I'll keep you posted if I uncover anything relevant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2011, 07:20 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ottawa,Canada
Posts: 1
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Problem with my 05 mustang convertible

Quote:
Originally Posted by 75gmck25
It sounds like you have the identical problem that I have with my convertible top, and you have gotten the same suggestions.

I replaced the lift cylinder on the slow side, and repaired the end of the tension rod on both sides. The first couple of times it seemed to be fixed and operating normally, but then started to lag again on the passenger side. I had spent so much time troubleshooting and fixing it, I decided I would let it sit for awhile before I go back and look for other problems. Its also extremely hot here (every day over 100), and working inside the confines of the back seat is not much fun

When I fixed the passenger side tension rod, I did notice that the rod was under quite a bit more tension than the driver's side - like the rod was a little too long or the mounting point on the body was a little too high. I had to put the top about 1/2 way down before the holes would line up enough to put the repaired rod back on.

I assume I still have one of two problems:
1- The top frame is still binding somewhere on the passenger side during the first few inches of lift. If I pull up on that side manually (while pushing the button) until it gets about 8-10" up, from that point it will lift normally. It always goes down evenly.
2 - The hydraulic system has problems that were not fixed by replacing the cylinder. I used sealer for hydraulic fittings on the threads, and I bled the system using the Ford procedure. There are no signs of any leaks. I could also try swapping the cylinders right to left, but that's more work than I want to do right now. Replacing the pump is also possible, but a new pump is very expensive.

I have pictures of what I fixed, but I don't know how much it will apply to a 2004. I think they made quite a few changes in 2005 when they went to the new body and the glass rear window in the convertible top.
If you want the pictures, just send me a PM with your email and I'll send them to you.

Bruce
Hi Bruce
My name is Andy I own a 05 mustang convertible and I have the same problem as you just recently. After discussion with my Ford dealer because I have the ESP on my car and this parts is not covered under the warranty (go figure everything is warranty until it breaks down ..Right) any way their way out was "Eh!! you will need to replace the top completely for a Gross amount of $6K" Anyway I was reading your post and it is really interesting. You mentioned that you had pictures on the repairs! Do you think that you can send them to me to find out How you did fix the problem. It would be appreciated my email is gtliveon@hotmail.com
Andy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2011, 12:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,754
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 65 Times in 63 Posts
Andy,

I sent you a separate email with a link to the pictures that I uploaded to my gmail photos.

Bruce

These are the notes I wrote up on how to make the repair.
Raise the top to about the halfway point so that the mechanism is easy to reach.

Remove the back seat and the side panels in the back, which will expose most of the convertible frame.

Unbolt the bottom of the strut rod, which has a star/torx fitting on the front and a regular nut on the back. It’s a relatively large torx bit (25?).

The upper end of the rod is held by a rivet, and the eye that the rivet goes through is where it breaks. You have to hold the convertible top liner away from the brace, and cut the head off the rivet. Now you can remove the strut rod completely.

Weld the broken eye in the end of the brace and reinforce it with an extra piece of steel so it is about Ό” thick.

Drill a new hole in the end of the brace, sized to ½”. Brace end is now about Ό inch thick, with a ½” hole.

Use a metal bushing from Lowes and cut it with a tubing cutter or hack saw so it is about the same length as the hole in the brace.
Bushing is ½” outer diameter, 3/8” inside diameter. Smooth out the cut ends with a dremel after cutting with a tubing cutter. Ensure a 3/8” shoulder bolt will fit into it and rotate smoothly..

Press 1/2” bushing into the brace end. Brace now has a 3/8” hole in the end, with a very smooth inside diameter.

Use socket head shoulder bolt 1” long, 3/8” shoulder, and 5/16” threaded end. This fits smoothly inside the bushing in the brace end. I found these at Fastenal.

Use a hardened washer on each side of brace, and an addition thin washer on the head side to shim the total depth to match the shoulder length on the bolt. This takes up the slack in the end, but still allows the brace to rotate smoothly.

Lightly lubricate everything with high temp wheel bearing grease, or some other grease that will not run when it gets hot.

Slide the brace down from the front and above, and line it up with the upper and lower mounting points.

Insert bolt with washers assembled and through the brace, into the bracket on the convertible top, and secure with a self-locking 3/8” x16 nut.

Bolt the other end of the brace to the support bracket on the car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2011, 05:17 PM
DanTwoLakes's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Contact adhesive
Last journal entry: 49 Packard
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Lake Tomahawk, Wisconsin
Age: 64
Posts: 5,853
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 150 Times in 137 Posts
Even though this thread is two years old, this is all good information. I would suggest using a bronze flange bushing, 1/2" OD and 3/8" ID. CLICK HERE
__________________
__________________________________

No one lives forever, the trick is creating something that will.
__________________________________

Last edited by DanTwoLakes; 09-17-2011 at 05:26 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Olds 350 help, 2 dead cylinders & cam lift Q? 360Camaro Engine 35 07-10-2005 02:42 PM
Mustang Convertible Top Larry Tyner Body - Exterior 1 10-23-2002 07:47 PM
convertible Carson top George Nagata Body - Exterior 0 06-10-2002 10:19 PM
4 door hard top to convertible?? leamichael Body - Exterior 2 05-28-2002 07:51 PM
CHOPPING CONVERTIBLE TOP FRMNDA1 Body - Exterior 0 12-09-2001 07:22 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.