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Old 06-17-2005, 06:02 AM
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Mustang II dropped spindles vs. std.

I'm building a custom IFS based on the M-II hardware - spindles, brakes and Chassisworks A-arms.
Does anyone know the weight difference between the dropped spindles and standard? I'd like to use the dropped version to better position the inner a-arm pick-up points on my chassis, but want to avoid gaining weight.

Anyone know what kind of backspacing you can run with the dropped spindles - on a 16" wheel? On paper, it looks like the lower BJ and outer tie rod end up very close to the inside of the wheel.
Lastly - Heidts states their dropped spindles "maintain stock suspension geometry" - anyone know for sure? Did they change the kingpin inclination angle to avoid increasing scrub radius? - or do they reposition the axle relative to balljoint location? Or just plain increase the scrub? I want to keep the scrub radius to a minimum, but also don't want to increase the KPI any more than the OEM 9.5* or so of the MII spindle.

Jeff
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Old 06-17-2005, 06:42 AM
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Spindles

As far as weight difference I don't think there is enough to make any difference in that area..

Now when the dropped spindles are employed yes you can induce a whole bunch of other issues which have been enumerated...

Just my own opinion is to use the Mustang in its stock configuration and work around that..Steve Smith autosports has some software that allows you to evaluate roll centers, bumpsteer and such which I would look into if building a custom cross member..

Being one who is more concerned about chassis performance it is just my way to build it to handle well and then work around that with the body work..I know getting it in the weeds so to speak is very important to some but then the car does need to be driveable and handle and perform well..

Bottom line for me is to stick with the factory spindles and work from there..I think it saves alot of difficulty..

Excuse the ramble..just my thoughts on the subject..

OMT
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Old 06-17-2005, 07:38 AM
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Thanks - and very much appreciate your thoughts OMT.
I've been working from static scale drawings using OEM specifications for the M-II and working out the geometry, RC, scrub, etc, and now intending to get some software to take this to the next level so to speak. I can place the ride height and inner pick-up points wherever I need to get the right "stance", while working on optimizing locations for best geometry and overall handling. During this I noticed that using a dropped spindle design (basically just lowering ball joints relative to axle CL) I was able to get more favorable inner pick-up point locations relative to other hardware on the car - ie: brake mastercylinders/footbox/existing frame members and the like. I also realized this simplified drop spindle layout introduced additional scrub radius over stock.

I'm very interested in weight reduction, even it it's only a few ounces. I know most guys running M-II derived hardware aren't too concerned about this, more about strength and supporting iron SB & BB powerplants. A lb or 2 extra at the spindle is not even noticable in that situation! My chassis is mid-engine and there'll be very little weight over the front end, especially compared to a front engined chassis (of any type). Building the car for performance street and likely some road course and autocross running. I like the availablity of the MII hardware, some of which appears to fit my needs near perfectly. Even though the OEM MII geometry is widely touted to be "less than ideal for road course use", with my overall track width, very low CG, along with dimensions of the A-Arms I'm using and MII spindles and tweaking the inner pick-up locations a little, the geometry on paper works out pretty darned good - at least with reference to the many chassis design books I've been using!
Jeff
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Old 06-17-2005, 10:23 AM
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Just look at this

Well in that case I think a fellow could spend some time "polishing" the spindles and get a few ounces off of them..Remember all of these things are a compromise somehow somewhere and something has to give in order to "get"

Just take a look at using locator arms with strut rods in the front and rear..if you PM I can make a "paper sketch" of those..that could save a bit of weight..I also have found some other sources for aluminum swaged tubes for tie rods and things like that..I presume the chassis will be 4130 in this case..Hope you are a good welder in that event..

One of my pet peeves with SCCA is that we did not get enough weight in the rulebook for the cars to build a strong chassis at least without resorting to "unobtanium" to build those things..

Good luck and have a good'un..BTW give the trophy girl a smooch for me..

OMT
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Old 06-17-2005, 11:49 AM
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Nothing quite that fancy OMT - mild DOM steel for the chassis mods. Just trying to purchase parts with an effort to reduce unsprung weight when I reasonably can.
Whittling the Heidts spindles down a bit does look doable from the images I've seen. They seem to have a lot of extra beef and bulk and I'm sure a little trimming where reasonably possible would be the order of the day. I intend to use the chassisworks brake kit, which they say doesn't increase scrub (like the Wilwood kits do), so whatever isn't needed to hold the adapter brackets in place can be done away with - of course not without careful consideration towards safety or weakening the spindle in critical areas!
I'm using (and already have) the Chassisworks A-arms (from their lightweight A-arm front suspension set-up) - these look to be just what the Dr. ordered for the overall layout.

The wifey might not care for me to be spending too much time smooching the trophy girl! Heh.

Thanks again - and I'd still be interested in hearing what others have found in regards to my original post.
Jeff
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