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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-25-2007, 11:00 PM
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Mustang II Front or new Frame

Well I wanted to put disk/power brakes and power steering on my 51 chevy deluxe and was wondering what would be the best or most economical way of doing so.

I have heard of going to a Mustang II IFS front end or getting a frame off of a newer model car and using that , the Mustang front sounds like it would be better but I do not know too much about this subject yet

Any input would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

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Old 09-25-2007, 11:19 PM
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For the novice the Mustang II IFS is probably the way to go. If you purchase it from one of the "name" manufacturers like Heidts, Fatmans and some others it will fit correctly and install easily. Some of the mom and pop shops that make Mustang kits leave a lot to be desired both in their instructions and quality.

The drawback to the Mustang II IFS is that it will be a little more expensive than doing a front clip from another car. That said the difference will be minimal when you count the cost of rebuilding the front end of the clip. Once you add in that cost (so you can compare apples to apples) the cost difference is not much. The other big difference is that installing a front clip from another car is not as easy as it sounds (same holds true for a complete frame swap). There will be alignment issues to deal with and hanging all that front end sheet metal back on a different frame will take a lot of extra work as well.

So.... for the novice I recommend a good quality Mustang II IFS. With some judicious shopping at swap meets you can complete one for around a grand. That includes big GM 11" disks and all new bushings, ball joints, bearings and rotors with rebuilt calipers.

Good luck with your build.
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Old 09-25-2007, 11:29 PM
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Mustang II Front or new Frame

I agree with Centerline. I'm a novice and went with a M II. I guess it depends on how much time you want to invest in this part of your project.

Centerline is right though when he says the cost is greater with the M II, unless you consider your time worth something.

I put a M II in my '41 Chevy Coupe and have been very satisfied. I felt that I could save the cost difference in other areas.
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Old 09-26-2007, 12:24 AM
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Well, it sounds like the M II would be the way to go for me . Do you have any links to some good manufactures to give me a good starting point on some parts.

Thanks again
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Old 09-26-2007, 05:58 AM
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www.fatmanfabrications.com
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:08 AM
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I am putting a TCI in my 41.

http://www.totalcostinvolved.com/

I am impressed with the quality of their kit. I am going to make one or two improvements. I will definitely make a bracket to go from the frame to the rear of the lower a-frame bolt so it is in double shear rather than single shear. Depending on if the rack unit will allow the room, I am going to do the same thing at the front.

In the rear, I am using a Chassis Engineering suspension.

http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/

Again, I am impressed with their quality. They make an MII kit, but I liked the looks of the TCI better. Personal preference.
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:10 AM
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I too am a frame novice and went with a TCI MII hub-to-hub kit, with power rack, upgraded 11" disks (vented/drilled) and a sway bar kit. I found it very easy to install on my 55 Chevy P/U 'truckrod'. I'm not sure where you can find one for a grand as someone alluded to, mine cost me about $1700, with all new/rebuilt components. Another advantage to a kit is the fact that all the suspension geometry is engineered into the kit specifically for your application. As opposed to a clip which may not result in the proper geometry, which may manifest itself in a poor handling/unsafe vehicle.

Hope this helps.

Antny
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:15 AM
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"I will definitely make a bracket to go from the frame to the rear of the lower a-frame bolt so it is in double shear rather than single shear. Depending on if the rack unit will allow the room, I am going to do the same thing at the front."


I understand the additional brackets that you mention, I wonder what TCI has to say about this. Is it better? Will it improve safety or add unwanted stresses to the lower bolt? Has anyone spoken to TCI or any other manufacturer of MII kits about this? Just wondering.

Antny
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Old 09-26-2007, 07:27 AM
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I don't know if anyone has contacted TCI. I know several members of this board have contacted MII kit producers regarding bolt sizes, gussets, and extra brackets. Bottom line is it is a very competitive, niche market. The minimum required is what you will find in most kits to keep the cost down.

The overall stress on the bolt will be the same. The difference will be that it will now be split into two locations instead of being concentrated at one location. Have a friend hold a pencil by one end in one hand while you push on the center. Now have him hold the pencil by by both ends using both hands while you push on the center.
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Old 09-26-2007, 10:10 AM
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Yeah, I get that. But I wonder if the bolt failures are due to shear forces, or bending moments? If they are due to moment forces, then the additional rear support should help mitigate that. If the failures are due to shear forces, the additional support won't help; the shear force won't change. From what I've heard about the failures, the bolts broke just ahead of the rearward control arm pivot. To me, that indicates a failure due to an excessive shear force, more than the bolt can sustain. Maybe I'm wrong. I just wonder what the manufacturers think of this modification, and if it helps, why don't they offer it in their new kits?

Antny
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Old 09-26-2007, 01:53 PM
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For my money Heidts is the best value and they have the best engineering.
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Old 09-26-2007, 02:08 PM
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I've only seen Heidt's products in magazines, never in detail in person. What makes their kit better than TCI or Fatman's? Not disagreeing, just curious.

Antny
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Old 09-26-2007, 05:53 PM
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Heidts kits fit properly with little or no trimming. Their design emulates the original Ford design and geometry exactly. Some of the other companies have tried to "improve" on Ford's design usually with mixed results. Ford spent millions to develop this suspension so I see no reason to mess with it.

Now some of the other guys who are very familiar with some of the other big names will disagree, but after reading the literature from Heidts and comparing their design with the designs from the other companies I just feel Heidts has a better unit.
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Old 09-26-2007, 08:01 PM
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Fair enough. When shopping for my MII kit, it was a coin flip between TCI and Heidts. I went with TCI. I didn't see a difference (based on pix and specs), and was just wondering if I missed something.

I must say this about TCI: although their installation instructions are TERRIBLE, it installed quite easily and fit without trimming anything. I just can't understand why they let their instructions continue to be written by chimpanzees and go un editted. Oh well.

Antny
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Old 09-26-2007, 11:00 PM
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Check this guy out, his product is on my 36 Ford, he has a kit for you. Prices are usually a bit lower, quality is great, my buddy uses about 20 of his kits a year. http://streetrodengineering.com/
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