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Old 09-08-2011, 12:04 AM
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Mustang II Retro Fit Questions

Hi, I'm upgrading my dads recently purchased 39 Chevy coupe. We're finishing up someone else s project so you know how that goes. This car has what appears to either be a nice hand fabbed M-II crossmember or an aftermarket one. It had lower control arm 1/2" pivot holes and all stock Mustang II bolt ons including strut rods, power rack, upper sheet metal A-arms, spindles, 4 lug ford brakes etc. I'm replacing all of the bolt ons and have bored the lower pivot holes to 5/8" to accommodate tube arms (no more struts). The tube arms (Full Tilt Street Rods purchased through FAB Quest.com) which are very nice pieces, have the pivot tubes...one shorter than the other. Now which one goes inside the crossmember and which goes rearward to be welded in with the gusset? Niether fits...the small is too short and the large is too long. Its off about 1/8".
My other question concerns the rack mounts. The OE rack bolted right to the crossmember. We have the spacer brackets to move the new power rack forward. Can you tell me if everything should be level from left to right..meaning level control arms (ride height) and then the tie rod ends, rods and rack should all be on the same plane or can there be some droop on the end rods when at ride height? I can move the brackets around to change this. I'm trying to avoid bump steer etc.
Thanks for any detailed comments,
Dave

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Old 09-08-2011, 06:02 PM
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Frankly its a shame you've spent all that money and you'll wind up with a suspension that isn't as good as the one you had. The stock Mustang II IFS using the strut rods is the strongest least troublesome way to go. Paying extra for tubular control arms is a waste of money on a fendered car where they won't be seen. Also eliminating the strut rods puts extra stress on the lower control arm attachment points which, when this is done, have been known to crack with catastrophic results. So if you eliminate the control arms you MUST box in the lower section of the crossmember where the lower control arm mounts all the way up to the frame rail. If you don't it will eventually crack. Do a search on Mustang II IFS failures and you'll see what I'm talking about.

To answer your question, at ride height (tubular control arms or stock..doesn't matter) the lower control arms should be level and the rack should be in the same plane for proper geometry.

Your problem with the lower control arms is a result of buying someone's control arms that probably weren't designed to be used with the particular crossmember you have. Not every Mustang II manufacturer builds his crossmembers to the same specs. If it was me, and I've done a couple of these, I'd return the tubular control arms and put everything back the way it was, but that's just me.

Good luck.

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Old 09-09-2011, 11:30 AM
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I figured it out....my dad's CM was made with .250" thick plate. All the kits out there use 3/16" and the pivot tubes are cut to take up that spacing. I have an extra 1/8" of meat on my CM. I'll have the tubes milled 1/16" off each and that should do it.
As far as the ends of the M-II CM cracking from improper design...that's pretty much an urban legend and am sorry to see it resurface again. Its always, my sisters boyfriends dad's brother knew a guy.....There are more posts on the net disputing that opin. than posts once again talking about the famous "cracking CM" that no ones has pics or documentation of. Oh and I'm sure there are plenty of cobbled up home M-II IFS failures out there right along with screwed up ladder bar equipped street cars, failed 110 Mig welds, bent up stock lower M-II control arms blah blah blahddy blah.....thousands of new US made M-II kits being sold every year made by TCI, Heidts, Fatman, Alston, Speedway, Full Tilt etc etc....man there must be hundreds of failures if they all have that same design flaw...lawyers must be making a killing. SEMA must be shutting those guys down...pulling their memberships. Oh wait, none of that happened? What a bunch of CRAP! Same old internet experts spinning yarns. Want my old strut rods and rubber bushings? I'll ship em to ya for free! That way you can have weak sloppy out of alignment sheet metal lower control arms forever!!
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevinpointsixtoone
Hi, I'm upgrading my dads recently purchased 39 Chevy coupe. We're finishing up someone else s project so you know how that goes. This car has what appears to either be a nice hand fabbed M-II crossmember or an aftermarket one. It had lower control arm 1/2" pivot holes and all stock Mustang II bolt ons including strut rods, power rack, upper sheet metal A-arms, spindles, 4 lug ford brakes etc. I'm replacing all of the bolt ons and have bored the lower pivot holes to 5/8" to accommodate tube arms (no more struts). The tube arms (Full Tilt Street Rods purchased through FAB Quest.com) which are very nice pieces, have the pivot tubes...one shorter than the other. Now which one goes inside the crossmember and which goes rearward to be welded in with the gusset? Niether fits...the small is too short and the large is too long. Its off about 1/8".
My other question concerns the rack mounts. The OE rack bolted right to the crossmember. We have the spacer brackets to move the new power rack forward. Can you tell me if everything should be level from left to right..meaning level control arms (ride height) and then the tie rod ends, rods and rack should all be on the same plane or can there be some droop on the end rods when at ride height? I can move the brackets around to change this. I'm trying to avoid bump steer etc.
Thanks for any detailed comments,
Dave

Dave,

The car should be at ride height and the rack parallel with the outer rod ends. Here are pix of the RCM MII based suspension in my Maverick. As you can see, my lower CA's are equal front and back. I'm sure all the others I've seen have the longer boss to the rear...

Russ
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:41 PM
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Very good thanks! I see you have some anti dive in the upper cross shaft mount. I like the upper coil over conversion to eyelet mounts. Did you make that or was it part of your kit?
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Old 09-09-2011, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevinpointsixtoone
I figured it out....my dad's CM was made with .250" thick plate. All the kits out there use 3/16" and the pivot tubes are cut to take up that spacing. I have an extra 1/8" of meat on my CM. I'll have the tubes milled 1/16" off each and that should do it.
As far as the ends of the M-II CM cracking from improper design...that's pretty much an urban legend and am sorry to see it resurface again. Its always, my sisters boyfriends dad's brother knew a guy.....There are more posts on the net disputing that opin. than posts once again talking about the famous "cracking CM" that no ones has pics or documentation of. Oh and I'm sure there are plenty of cobbled up home M-II IFS failures out there right along with screwed up ladder bar equipped street cars, failed 110 Mig welds, bent up stock lower M-II control arms blah blah blahddy blah.....thousands of new US made M-II kits being sold every year made by TCI, Heidts, Fatman, Alston, Speedway, Full Tilt etc etc....man there must be hundreds of failures if they all have that same design flaw...lawyers must be making a killing. SEMA must be shutting those guys down...pulling their memberships. Oh wait, none of that happened? What a bunch of CRAP! Same old internet experts spinning yarns. Want my old strut rods and rubber bushings? I'll ship em to ya for free! That way you can have weak sloppy out of alignment sheet metal lower control arms forever!!
Feel free to stick your head in the sand as deep as you want. Obviously you didn't do a search. There are documented cases with pictures if you search for them. At any rate, if you eliminate the strut rods you had better box in the crossmember to be safe, or PLEASE DON'T DRIVE ANYWHERE NEAR ME.

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Old 09-10-2011, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elevinpointsixtoone
Very good thanks! I see you have some anti dive in the upper cross shaft mount. I like the upper coil over conversion to eyelet mounts. Did you make that or was it part of your kit?
Part of the kit, there is 3" of height adjustability built into it...

Russ
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