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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-27-2013, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RatPin View Post
I have a tach on order now and will install it this weekend.

I do have a question about the above post though. This weekend I took the truck out for a short drive and noticed while driving above say 45 that if I stepped on the gas lightly that it would rev up but not transfer to the wheels. Then if I slowly stepped into the throttle at the same speed it would rev a little before actually transferring power to the wheels. Does this mean I am in lockup or that I am not in lockup?

Once I install the tack I should be able to see lockup engage without any question them?

I might add that my truck's interior is hollow right now and the exhaust is quite loud which really makes it hard for me to determine RPM. 1800 may feel/sound like 3000.
If the engine revved up slightly you werent in lockup.
If you applied light accelerator pedal and teh revs didnt come up at all, you were probably lockup.

peace
Hog

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:18 PM
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OK this weekend I installed the tach and took it on a 25 mile run and as I suspected I am not getting the trans to lockup in OD. It was running 2800 rpms and 55 mph with 4.10 gears and a 28" tire. It also seems like when the shifter is in "D" that it wont go passed 3rd gear. Could this possibly be a linkage problem? I'm not quite sure what to try next. Any help is appreciated.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2013, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RatPin View Post
OK this weekend I installed the tach and took it on a 25 mile run and as I suspected I am not getting the trans to lockup in OD. It was running 2800 rpms and 55 mph with 4.10 gears and a 28" tire. It also seems like when the shifter is in "D" that it wont go passed 3rd gear. Could this possibly be a linkage problem? I'm not quite sure what to try next. Any help is appreciated.
Here's a calculator you can use. Speed Potential Calculator For Ring Gear And Pinion Changes The OD is a 0.70 gear ratio. Sounds like your still in 3rd. What kind of shifter are you using? If it's for a t350or t400 then it won't let the selector go into 4th and you won't have 4th or OD.
Bunch of cals at AutomotiveCalculators and Converters
Gear ratios on the 700R4 are 3.06 1st gear, 1.63 2nd gear, 1.00 3rd gear, .070 4th gear which is the OD part and where the TQ locks up. No lockup, no 4th. No 4th, no lockup.
What method are u using to lockup the OD?
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Old 04-29-2013, 05:01 PM
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I have a lokar shifter that I'm using for the 700r4. I have the complete relay circuit kit from bowtie the activate lockup and I have tested it with a light and it's working like it should. I can disctinctly feel three shifts. I have done all the calculations and the numbers all work out to it being in third still, but because I can clearly feel three shifts, I think it would have to be in fourth. Unless there is something I am missing.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by RatPin View Post
I have a lokar shifter that I'm using for the 700r4. I have the complete relay circuit kit from bowtie the activate lockup and I have tested it with a light and it's working like it should. I can disctinctly feel three shifts. I have done all the calculations and the numbers all work out to it being in third still, but because I can clearly feel three shifts, I think it would have to be in fourth. Unless there is something I am missing.
If u can feel 3 shifts then it should be in 4th. I use the TCI OD kit in mine and had to lower the vacuum range on the vacuum switch to get it to work. As I adjusted the switch from 10" vacuum to 8 then 6 it started engaging in n out rapidly. Finally set it it 4" and it stays in. I only have 10" at an idle and it drops to 5 when OD engages. so maybe u can figure from that? When it kicks in you'll drop 300 RPM. Don't sound like much but it does make a difference.
U may want to look at the Lokar shifter thread on here about the neutral switch also.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:27 PM
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Yep, already commented on that thread as my shifter will also start in drive after carefully setting per Lokar instructions. I think I may try and loosen the TV cable ever so slightly to see if it has an effect on 4th gear lockup.
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RatPin View Post
Yep, already commented on that thread as my shifter will also start in drive after carefully setting per Lokar instructions. I think I may try and loosen the TV cable ever so slightly to see if it has an effect on 4th gear lockup.
Worth a shot but if it's in 4th I don't think the cable tension will affect lockup. There are ways to check some of stuff that has to do with lockup without removing the pan, some u have to remove the pan. Just do a search on that item. I'd check engine vacuum, then vacuum setting on the OD vacuum switch. Make sure it holds a vacuum also, mine wasn't. Puter crashed recently or I'd have the links for u.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:17 PM
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My system works on a brake pedal pressure switch rather than the vacuum. I will check all the connections and test for power again this weekend and possibly adjust the TV cable slightly. I have not gone above 70 yet. I have read a couple places, that on a new build it took a wide open throttle going above 70pmh to engage lockup and then from there it worked fine. Almost like the solenoid needs to be activated or broken in. I don't know. More tests to come...
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RatPin View Post
My system works on a brake pedal pressure switch rather than the vacuum. I will check all the connections and test for power again this weekend and possibly adjust the TV cable slightly. I have not gone above 70 yet. I have read a couple places, that on a new build it took a wide open throttle going above 70pmh to engage lockup and then from there it worked fine. Almost like the solenoid needs to be activated or broken in. I don't know. More tests to come...
The complete relay circuit kit from bowtie on their site shows a vacuum switch, which one do u have, part #? I have heard of the lockup solenoid being stiff when new. Usually that's done with the rear end on stands, with it in gear, jerk the TV cable a few times, but if no cops around, why not. lol
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:43 PM
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This is the kit I'm using:

#comprelay700
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:04 PM
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This is the kit I'm using:

#comprelay700
Have u tried to engage OD in 2nd or 3rd? Bowtie says it will allow for that. Couldn't tell if that is a relay or a vacuum switch. Thinks it's a relay. You may want to call Bowtie and talk with them. OD in 2nd or 3rd will drop the RMP some but I'm not sure how much, probably the 300 RPM again.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:15 PM
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I've already spoken with them and all they can say is they think I'm only getting to 3rd gear which the RPM's would lead me to believe, but since I can clearly feel 3 shifts I think I have to be in 4th.

The kit I installed (linked above) only allows lockup in 4th. I did not install the optional extra wiring to enable lockup in 2nd and 3rd since I will never be towing with my truck.
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Old 04-30-2013, 05:42 PM
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I can't keep up with all of the different posts above so let me start my own dialog.

For testing purposes-to verify if you are getting 4th gear. Go under the vehicle and UNPLUG the electrical connector from the drivers side of trans. Tape or wire the plug up so it does not touch hot exhaust, or come in contact with anything else. Now, go out and drive the vehicle with the gear shifter in D or D with a circle around it, or 4th or whatever position you need to put the shifter into that would allow it to go into 4th gear. Now, find a road that does not have much traffic and get up to at least 50 mph.. Now, slowly move the shifter from "4th" down into "3rd" and listen for the engine rpm's to increase. If the engine rpm's don't spike up, then you know it is not getting 4th gear.

By unplugging the electrical connector you remove some of the confusion of testing. If your testing reveals that you are not getting 4th gear, you may have:
1. Sticking/stuck TV valve
2. Incorrectly adjusted TV cable OR incorrect brackets
3. Sticking/stuck 3-4 sequence valve
4. Sticking/stuck relay valve
5. Sticking/stuck governor
6. Incorrectly assembled valve body (relay valve put in backwards, missing springs, missing cup plug, etc)
or several other things.... but most likely one of the above that I have listed will be your problem.

Aren't 700's just a joy? GM was smart to get away from TV cables, Governors, TV valves, and hydraulically shifted transmissions. Maybe as hot-rodders we should do the same. The after-market shift boxes for the 4L60E's have come way down in price to under $500 at this time. If you add up the time (dollars) to keep messing with dinosaur technology (700's) you will quickly see that you could have spent less time (dollars) installing a 4L60E with after-market shift box and be up and running right now. I'm starting to see a lot of guys in my local car clubs robbing GM PCM's from the junk-yard and modifying them to run the 4L60E transmissions. That is even CHEAPER than buying an after-market shift box. The cool thing about the after-market shift boxes is you can program your own shift points, line pressure, how quickly passing gear comes in, and a myriad of other things at your control.

I still build the 700's when people ask, but I know in the back of my mind that there is a high probability that they will be coming back for warranty work. Either customer installer error-not adjusting the TV cable correctly, incorrect brackets, not hooking the cable up at all, broken cable ends, customer not flushing their cooler before installing the new trans, or re-running old converters that are filled with crap, or builder error-bad/sticking governors, sticking TV valves (even when installing the Trans-Go TV valve kit they can STILL hang up), other problems within the VB itself that are not immediately evident upon tear-down, cleaning, and rebuild..
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Old 04-30-2013, 06:38 PM
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I'll try the unplug method this weekend. So my shifter shows P-R-N-OD-D-2-1. In this configuration I would guess "D" acts as 3rd gear?
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:11 PM
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I was just thinking...my truck has the original Dana 44 rear axle in it that still had the 4.11 tag attached to one of the bolts on the case. Do you think it would be possible that someone would have put 5.89 gears in it at some point and not removed the tag? The RPM's I'm seeing in what I think is 4th gear would almost exactly match where I should be if running 5.89 rear gears. Does anyone actually run those gears? When I bought the truck the original trans was blown to bits in a box in the cab, so I never drove it before now.
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