My buddies ATX internals - what caused this failure ? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Transmission - Rearend
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2007, 07:32 AM
lowROLLERchevy's Avatar
... & Insanity Ensues .....
 
Last wiki edit: The FREE T Bucket plans Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Western NY
Age: 35
Posts: 937
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
My buddies ATX internals - what caused this failure ?

car:
ford taurus sho - gen 2 - 3.2l w/ autotragic tranny

mileage:
10k miles on the car since everything was installed

mods:
the indestructible doug louis slushbox (ford rebuild+ shift kit + bulletproof TC + misc shims and alterations)
67mm turbo w/ high quality supporting mods
12psi, with the occasional 15psi+
no engine internals besides 3.0 cams

how it worked before:
first and second gear never really felt "positive" even when we cranked up the line pressure up .... they always seamed to slip a bit, but we could never be sure

3rd gear ... in 3rd gear the car pulled like a freight train ...for the first 8k miles, then 3rd gear started missing

once a week or so the car would "miss" 3rd gear, and we couldn't get a straight answer on what it could be

electrical ? solenoid problem ? clutch pack ?

but slow down, put it in second, stick it back in 3rd, and away you go in 3rd again

that is, until the last time the car was beat on ... on a highway on ramp we were making a hard pull to catch up with the rather fast traffic on the highway ... it was a downhill slope and alex was using 3/ throttle

first... second ... neutral with muffled scary noises .... 3rd gear refuses to re-engage like previous times

we drive home another 200+ miles using 1,2 and 4 ... they give us zero problem

so now the trans is apart on the bench, as shipping alone to and from FPS is $500

yay for a spotless 1st gear



2nd gear: 2 hot spots visible, 2more on the flip side


close up of one of the hot spot sections ... notice how localized they are, i believe this is important


other 2nd gear hot spot, again very localized


3rd gear: notice again that all the hot spots are localized, but this time the clutches are annihilated (clutches in front in the first pic, plates in the back)

notice how one clutch disk seams to have survived unscathed ???
same with one of the steel plates ...








    Advertisement

Last edited by lowROLLERchevy; 07-08-2007 at 08:48 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2007, 07:33 AM
lowROLLERchevy's Avatar
... & Insanity Ensues .....
 
Last wiki edit: The FREE T Bucket plans Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Western NY
Age: 35
Posts: 937
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
what is this part you ask ?
i don't know, because i wasn't there for the tear down, but it sure is plugged with trash !

the bearing side doesn't look to pretty either







now for the inner basket that all the clutches ride on

the garbage you seat sitting in there is sheet metal scraps of some sort, melted plastic, and those rectangular metal blocks... which I'm pretty sure ARE supposed to be rectangular









and oh yea ... taurus with a tranny leak !

Last edited by lowROLLERchevy; 07-08-2007 at 08:48 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2007, 07:45 AM
Crosley's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: T-350 rebuild tech
Last journal entry: Bar under the dash
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ... USA
Posts: 8,101
Wiki Edits: 1659

Thanks: 340
Thanked 102 Times in 98 Posts
first;

it is not an ATX trans..... it should be a AX4N

these are common failures for the tranny... lubrication problems with wear and tear.

The rollers every where are the roller clutch. That is what happens when they get hot from lack of lube.

these trannys can suffer from soft 1-2 shifts , poor line rise , high line loss of lube, planet failure with mileage on them
__________________
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2007, 08:00 AM
lowROLLERchevy's Avatar
... & Insanity Ensues .....
 
Last wiki edit: The FREE T Bucket plans Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Western NY
Age: 35
Posts: 937
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
yes, its an ax4n ... the sho Automatic TransaXle

the transgo kit was supposed to take care of the lub problems, apparently it didnt

i was hoping those werent roller bearings, i wasnt sure because every last one is equaly squared off

i realy want to take this tranny from his garage in the middle of the night and scrap it, then force my budy to do a MTX swap ....

oh yea, turns out that apparently doug louis, the guy who owns FPS, never makes it back from a track day in his SHO w/ his SHO still driving

HE CANT EVEN KEEP HIS OWN TRANNY'S TOGETHER!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2007, 08:14 AM
Crosley's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: T-350 rebuild tech
Last journal entry: Bar under the dash
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ... USA
Posts: 8,101
Wiki Edits: 1659

Thanks: 340
Thanked 102 Times in 98 Posts
the ATX trans is a 3 speed . light duty transaxle.... stoopid feeling shifts due to Ford's design which was also used in the AOD design for 3rd gear.

Most lube problems come from worn bushings
__________________
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2007, 08:17 AM
lowROLLERchevy's Avatar
... & Insanity Ensues .....
 
Last wiki edit: The FREE T Bucket plans Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Western NY
Age: 35
Posts: 937
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
hmmm, didnt realize that ford actualy used "atx" to name one of its transmissions

ive always used a/t & m/t to describe rwd transmissions and atx / mtx to describe fwd transmissions
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2007, 11:28 AM
lowROLLERchevy's Avatar
... & Insanity Ensues .....
 
Last wiki edit: The FREE T Bucket plans Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Western NY
Age: 35
Posts: 937
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosley
..... it should be a AX4n
correction for both you and i ...ax4s

slight bit different
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2007, 02:06 PM
Crosley's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: T-350 rebuild tech
Last journal entry: Bar under the dash
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ... USA
Posts: 8,101
Wiki Edits: 1659

Thanks: 340
Thanked 102 Times in 98 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowROLLERchevy
correction for both you and i ...ax4s

slight bit different

I looked in the books.

it shows an AX4S/H something to do with the SHO vehicle.

Since I have not worked on front wheel drive stuff in yrs I am a bit rusted up.

I was never impressed with the SHO vehicles. They never had a tranny that would hold up to the engine IF you turned the wick up.

When the SHO engine was turned around for a rear wheel drive , then they could run hard.

regardless of which tranny it is....... broke is broke. Lube problems , planet failure destroyed these transaxles

__________________
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2007, 07:36 PM
airworld2's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston texas
Posts: 583
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
axode-ax4s

both transmission's suffer from lube problems and shifting trouble's
this was never a good choice for horse power or heavy duty use, but with good spring choice for accumulator's you be able to make chirps shifting at every start and will have an adverse affect on final drive shaft i.e. that puppy will snap like glass...I like Superior shift kits for this unit and a little trial and many errors will teach you, many bad mistakes here...
__________________
airworld2
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 11:22 AM
pmeisel's Avatar
Glad the Jeep is on the road
 
Last wiki edit: How to identify a Ford V8
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Meridian MS & Vermilion Ohio
Age: 58
Posts: 814
Wiki Edits: 8

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowROLLERchevy
hmmm, didnt realize that ford actualy used "atx" to name one of its transmissions

ive always used a/t & m/t to describe rwd transmissions and atx / mtx to describe fwd transmissions
Ford's "very original" code name for its first small car autl transaxle was the ATX, I guess that was all they could think of. At the time they never believed the would do a bigger one.

The original Taurus transaxle was codenamed AXOD, but when they started getting global in design sharing, they started to rename everything.... e.g. the old AOD became the 4R70W, the 4 speed electronic version of the old C6 became the 4R100-something-or-other, etc.

I don't stay up with it any more, now that I don't work with them I play more with Jeeps and GM stuff.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 01:07 PM
lowROLLERchevy's Avatar
... & Insanity Ensues .....
 
Last wiki edit: The FREE T Bucket plans Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Western NY
Age: 35
Posts: 937
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by airworld2
both transmission's suffer from lube problems and shifting trouble's
this was never a good choice for horse power or heavy duty use, but with good spring choice for accumulator's you be able to make chirps shifting at every start and will have an adverse affect on final drive shaft i.e. that puppy will snap like glass...I like Superior shift kits for this unit and a little trial and many errors will teach you, many bad mistakes here...
we can already chirpevery gear. just have to add a bit ofline pressure using the tuning software

the tranny actualy did decent, previously he was blowing a trans every year on stock hp, now this transmission lasted a year with more then double the old hp

actualy, probably closer to triple considering the power "under the curve" thanks to thee turbo

and probably someplace around 4 times the power under the curve when we ran those high boost (17psi) runs

this tranny did pretty good considering its a 3600 pound car that broke into the 12's at the dragstrip

while its at the tranny shop im going to talk to the shops owner, see if maybe we can get creative and supply the lubrication that the clutches need .... basicly redo fords work ...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 02:27 PM
scrot's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In front computer
Posts: 449
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Would you say in general that Ford has the crappiest transmissions?
We have an Aerostar van with the A4LD p.o.s. transmission that had a sprag and planetary gear failure AMONG OTHERS.

Last edited by scrot; 07-10-2007 at 06:16 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 03:17 PM
lowROLLERchevy's Avatar
... & Insanity Ensues .....
 
Last wiki edit: The FREE T Bucket plans Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Western NY
Age: 35
Posts: 937
Wiki Edits: 22

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
i think so

i had a ford autotragic massacare itself behind its 2.3l powerplant

80hp managed to shear the 1"+ input shaft while i puttered up the driveway ... and the entire crack was fresh, it wasnt already 1/2 broke or anything ...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 05:11 PM
airworld2's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston texas
Posts: 583
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
axode-ax4s

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowROLLERchevy
we can already chirpevery gear. just have to add a bit ofline pressure using the tuning software

the tranny actualy did decent, previously he was blowing a trans every year on stock hp, now this transmission lasted a year with more then double the old hp

actualy, probably closer to triple considering the power "under the curve" thanks to thee turbo

and probably someplace around 4 times the power under the curve when we ran those high boost (17psi) runs

this tranny did pretty good considering its a 3600 pound car that broke into the 12's at the dragstrip

while its at the tranny shop im going to talk to the shops owner, see if maybe we can get creative and supply the lubrication that the clutches need .... basicly redo fords work ...
ok lets see if I have this right your looking for help and when you get a general opinion then you tell someone like me with as many years in
transmission repair as you have on this earth that it working in a manner as to shifting firm but you pictures show clutch failure from slipping. then what are you here looking for??? this transmission was weak to say it kindly add turbo and god knows what else what do expect???? and ford makes many good transmission's these where never meant to your horse power range..
__________________
airworld2
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-10-2007, 05:20 PM
airworld2's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: houston texas
Posts: 583
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
axode-ax4s

to add a bit more this unit will stretch the drive chain and break it with too much torque after all its chain drive, they have that trouble as well as others mentioned. I don't want to come off as an a## but opinion's are cheap...
__________________
airworld2
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Transmission - Rearend posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Update Pics: Bearing Failure.....what caused it TurboS10 Engine 78 11-07-2004 02:22 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.