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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 02:01 AM
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home made plasma cutter.

not plasma but arc cutter... just take the arc generated by the DIY tig machine and combine with your air compressor. (you could probably make one to run off the same electric motor.)
direct a stream of air directly above the arc. it will blow the molten material out of the area and work just like a plasma cuttter. the air has to be tightly focused

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Now, if someone could just come up with a home made plasma cutter...

Regards,
Rob

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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIPPACJ
I Have Just Become A Member And Had Seen Your Tig Welder And Would Like To Know If You Had Ever Made A Parts List And Plans Other Than The Schematic Already Posted Here.
all the parts needed are listed in the thread already .. realy

i suck at electronics and i figured this out ...
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 12:57 PM
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Seth, That would not work like a plasma cutter, different principle there, it would however work similar to a carbon arc gouge (Air-Arc). Plasma involves much more than simply heating the metal and using air to "blow away" the molten metal.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2006, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini86
correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't you be able to creat an AC welder by simply eliminating the rectifier? of course you would need different parts to control the AC current, or does that even matter? And as far as the 3fac goes, alternators output three waves of power, one right after the other, directly after the 3rd wave follows the 1st again, so it just keeps cycling on and on, making it a smooth almost constant power output.


Correct an alternator is an AC 3 Phase generator.

You can control the current t with a saturable core reactor or voltage/current limit on the stator of the alt. or excite wire.

As you can see here,


There is still a 1/4 wave dip every 3rd so it is a pulsing DC output, but if you stack 3 alts all 1/3 turn in rotation you get 9phase similar power so smooth you ark will love you.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2006, 07:25 PM
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THIS IS REALLY COOL BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO EFFECTIVELY TURN IT INTO AN AC/DC UNIT??? DOES IT HAVE TO BE SINGLE PHASE OR WILL THREE WORK??? IF THREE PHASE WILL WORK I CAN PROBABLY HANDLE SETTING IT UP AC/DC BUT SOMEHOW I DONT THINK ITS GOING TO BE THAT EASY...... DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO DO THIS RELATIVELY EASY AND ABOVE ALL EFFECTIVELY???? I HAVE NO PROBLEM TESTING THEORIES, I JUST DON'T HAVE THE TECHNICAL ELECTRONICS KNOWLEDGE
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2006, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datsun350
THIS IS REALLY COOL BUT DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO EFFECTIVELY TURN IT INTO AN AC/DC UNIT??? DOES IT HAVE TO BE SINGLE PHASE OR WILL THREE WORK??? IF THREE PHASE WILL WORK I CAN PROBABLY HANDLE SETTING IT UP AC/DC BUT SOMEHOW I DONT THINK ITS GOING TO BE THAT EASY...... DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO DO THIS RELATIVELY EASY AND ABOVE ALL EFFECTIVELY???? I HAVE NO PROBLEM TESTING THEORIES, I JUST DON'T HAVE THE TECHNICAL ELECTRONICS KNOWLEDGE
Actually a 3-phase generator is the working business end to the question.
A/C set ups require transformers and very large capacitors with all kinds of other stuff cramed all into very small places. I work for the government and part of my duties are to repair welding equipment. These new styled TIG units are out of this world when it comes to fixing the buggers. Really tough thing to do. I can get some fectory prints and do a concise diagram to help explain the requirments. I can not actually display the diagram from the factory, simply because of copy write in fringments. But I can make a simple sketch and display my own rendering foe all to follow. It will take about a week to get this all together, gotta balance the work load. Latter
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2006, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Seth, That would not work like a plasma cutter, different principle there, it would however work similar to a carbon arc gouge (Air-Arc). Plasma involves much more than simply heating the metal and using air to "blow away" the molten metal.
Actually the plasma cutters out today are very close to this principal. They have a 220 A/c input, it goes across a rectifier and produces around a 40 amp D/c pulse. Then once you pull the trigger. it starts the arc and you need a minimum of 60 to 80 psi. across the cut, which is funneled through the tip. The tip is similar to the TIG tip, only using a much larger tip soarce. I will snap some pictures of my plasma cutter and do a simple drawing of this build.
Then the rest of you can decide on your own accord into what can be done with this itme. Later
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2006, 11:18 AM
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While the basic mechanics of the air flow being concentrated and directed into the molten metal would be similar the temperature is much higher with a plasma than just a simple arc and that is why I would compare it more to a carbon arc gouge than a plasma cutter JMO.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2006, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Rankin
Ok well the lesson on voltage dividers was just that .. a lesson.. the voltage dividers are VR1 and VR1 10k Potentiometers.. the o.1 ohm resistors are simply 12" of 14 AWG wire, just a s a means to balance the load on the 2N5885's


.............
Instead of using just 14awg at 12" lengths, do you think the use of an air core, ceramic coated, large watt resistor might do the job? I would think mostly on the safety side of the build. Plus as I was looking over the build, would it be an added precaution to envelop the loose parts, mostly from being a quality inspector as one of my many hats I have worn over the years working for the gov. Safety is always a gaurantee for longevity.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2006, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
While the basic mechanics of the air flow being concentrated and directed into the molten metal would be similar the temperature is much higher with a plasma than just a simple arc and that is why I would compare it more to a carbon arc gouge than a plasma cutter JMO.
So, actually, to your description here, those manufactures are mislabeling their products. After mulling this over in the old rock box , I can see your view is very warranted. Just because, in order to have true plasma, you need to have a mixture if gases, instead of just having plain old shop air at 60 + psig. blowing across the electrode at the arc point. Now I have a cutter over at one of my shops, and all we use is air@80psi. I will open the box up later today and get some inside pictures of the critter. Make notes of the internals and get back as a different discussion post. We don't need to high-jack this one anymore the what has been. OK.......good stuff to ponder when it comes to manufactures.
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2006, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badone07
Interesting project. I was planning on building this one... http://myweb.cableone.net/rschell/TIG.htm but your's looks like it might be less complicated.
Now this is the stuff I love to build. It is simple, to the point, organized, and most anyone could build this critter. Plus, if some one was really a busy bug, they could just as easy build up and pre-fab this as a kit. You just need to offer the chap who did the proto-type some royalties on his designs. Now if he has not generated a patent on his DIY post. One could actually rob him of this project and make a killing as a home shop kit. This is the world of capitalism folks, not saying I am this deviant and all, but this is how those in th e middle companies make their money. They steel everything and turn a buck off it.

I really like the idea has done and gratefully has made drawings of all this stuff. Plus has added the step by step process in the build. Just offering the power controller board alone, can generate a gracious return in ones efforts to fabricate these up, mostly for all those out in the world who have no true electronic skills and do not care to even think about building this on their own.

And I know most, no nearly 99% of all those who would like to have this in their shop, would actually spend the $150 price tag on just this one power board. Trust me, this is the price everyone already pays to fix a Miller 250 model. I have had to do this twice on one of my welders. This is by far the most single expensive part of any welder, the main power control board. You need to look at the actual time spent gathering all the parts and then the time spent building the item. It takes about four hours of assembly time with all the soldering and laying out of all the parts.

Well, anyway, our fellow shop Meister here has made one similar for us to enjoy, and I really would like to say thanks for the many hours of time spent and the simplicity of this design. I will build one of these for my home shop, because the business shop uses the other, and it is warranted and is a business write off. This however could be a write off under another category.
Don't forget all, once you build one of these contraptions, and you get all the bugs worked out, you can use all this time as a tax deduction under the ospice of tools for your home auto shop business.

lol....man how I do love all this busy work we do here on the forum...

Take care all, and give me a couple days to get the other stuff together for a new post on things stated in this forum......
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2006, 02:44 PM
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I never said anything about manufactuers, we are talking about a home made welder here and a TIG welder and a plasma cutter are two very different concepts. A home made TIG with a device attached to direct an air stream would be similar to a carbon arc gouge in that they would both be using the heat from the arc to melt the base metal and a stream of air to blow out the molten metal while the plasma cutter uses the arc to heat a gas to the plasma state, this is a fourth state of matter-neither gas, liquid nor solid. This is done inside the torch head and involves constriction of the gas and the arc and it is much more involved than simply using an air stream to blow away metal that has been melted by the arc. This is hardly a simple device one could easily build at home nor is it simply using a basic TIG machine with an air nozzle attached.
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2006, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
I never said anything about manufactuers, we are talking about a home made welder here and a TIG welder and a plasma cutter are two very different concepts. A home made TIG with a device attached to direct an air stream would be similar to a carbon arc gouge in that they would both be using the heat from the arc to melt the base metal and a stream of air to blow out the molten metal while the plasma cutter uses the arc to heat a gas to the plasma state, this is a fourth state of matter-neither gas, liquid nor solid. This is done inside the torch head and involves constriction of the gas and the arc and it is much more involved than simply using an air stream to blow away metal that has been melted by the arc. This is hardly a simple device one could easily build at home nor is it simply using a basic TIG machine with an air nozzle attached.
LOL....sorry to throw you off on that one......What I ment is that some manufactures have been mis-labeling their equipment. They may refere to their item as a "plasma cutter" but in actuallity, it is more or less a glorified air-arc cutter. This was the intended vision. And I stated I would get some pictures of what is at one of the shops I work out of and go over the internals of and actually give the vision of how this is qualified as a plasma cutter. Not everyone has an understanding electrical functions and their abilities to tie everything together is another story. I was just going to help enlighten a few of our fellow mechs on the site. Gotta go for now, we will work this issue out over time. CU
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 10-19-2006, 05:11 PM
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I wonder if it'd be possible to use another small alternator and a small 12 volt lead acid battery instead of the transformer circuit to get the voltage to excite the field on the main alternator. Then all that would be needed would be a potentiometer that could handle the 7 or so amps for the field current of the larger alternator.

This seems like a good way to have some accessory hookups on a portable unit as well since it would be a steady twelve volt source.

I just read this whole thread (minus the diagrams and such, it was easier to follow if I didn't get too much into the technical stuff right away) and it seems like a pretty awesome way to make a cheap and reliable TIG machine.

Travis, just another thought, for aluminum you need AC current, an alternator puts out 3 phase which wouldn't work since you'd have both positive and negative voltages at the same time, but if you got rid of two of the outputs you would have a single phase ac unit, although it would need to be a pretty big alternator since it takes more current to weld aluminum.

Just a couple thoughts.
Rick
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old 11-20-2006, 02:56 AM
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Due to the amount of SpamBots hitting this thread because of it's popularity, I am closing this thread. If someone wants to add to it, please start another thread with a different title but same info.

Thank you
Kevin
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