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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2012, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
Alrighty then thats what ill do. Even if it takes 2 years (i hope not) to build this car it will happen. Just a little at a time.
When working with Nitrous.. don't go for a big shot right off the bat.. start with a small shot and work your way up checking your plugs on the way.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2012, 06:21 PM
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My first 350 build

Kenny , I don't want to hurt your feelings but I'm not gonna hold nothing back. If you are interested in building a race motor how about getting some reading material. This may be a shock but building a race motor at the least cost will set you back about $10,000. Checkout the story on this build. http://www.onedirt.com/tech-stories/...-engine-build/. You won't have to have that much compression but you will need the same light weight parts. If you are going to have a machine shop build the motor for you check out these motors from CNC Motorsports. USRA Stock Car SB Chevy 350 Spec Stage 3 Race Engine - Race Engines | CNC Motorsports | Car Parts | Truck Parts | Competition Engines. Those CompStar lightweight cranks are sold by Callies.
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by prostreet6t9 View Post
When working with Nitrous.. don't go for a big shot right off the bat.. start with a small shot and work your way up checking your plugs on the way.
Ya ill likely putt it all motor first then go up 100 hp of nitrous at a time. Not only for motor safety but driver safety aswell.
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Old 11-22-2012, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
Kenny , I don't want to hurt your feelings but I'm not gonna hold nothing back. If you are interested in building a race motor how about getting some reading material. This may be a shock but building a race motor at the least cost will set you back about $10,000. Checkout the story on this build. http://www.onedirt.com/tech-stories/...-engine-build/. You won't have to have that much compression but you will need the same light weight parts. If you are going to have a machine shop build the motor for you check out these motors from CNC Motorsports. USRA Stock Car SB Chevy 350 Spec Stage 3 Race Engine - Race Engines | CNC Motorsports | Car Parts | Truck Parts | Competition Engines. Those CompStar lightweight cranks are sold by Callies.
I understand you can throw as much money as your heart desires at a motor. But are you saying its not possible to build a mild reliable nitrous motor for a good amount less then 10k? With what ive seen online for parts id have to do some work spending 10k. But im new to this like i said so maybe theres a lot im missing. The first link dosent work for me.
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Old 11-22-2012, 08:59 PM
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At the risk of starting a riot here, think twice about using an OEM 4-bolt block for a race/600 hp nitrous motor. Not that it can't be done, if I was going big nitrous I'd go 2-bolt block with splayed billet caps, much stronger. JMO
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 68NovaSS View Post
At the risk of starting a riot here, think twice about using an OEM 4-bolt block for a race/600 hp nitrous motor. Not that it can't be done, if I was going big nitrous I'd go 2-bolt block with splayed billet caps, much stronger. JMO

No riot, im still learning. Ive always heard 4 bolts the way to go so i did. Even my machinist was glad to hear i was planning on using a 4 bolt. Not saying he was right but yeah. Why is a 2 bolt better with nitrous?

And in the not trying to start a riot fashion im curious, are you guys playing it VERY safe with your recommendations? I ask because a 600whp honda motor is really not that impressive. They resleeve the motor and make 800whp all the time. I decided to shoot for 600hp because it seems like a very mild build for a 350. Am i wrong in that assumption? calling a 600hp 350 a "Race Motor" seems extreme. Its just a little nitrous on a 350. I just want to drive down the track on the weekends. 12's dosent seem like a race car to me. Im assuming thats the ballpark id be in with that power... maybe high 11's with a heavy tail wind.

In this thread 600hp seems like a fortune fed ground breaking race motor build. Then a couple threads down $3k gets you 400hp no problems all motor. whats going on here? lol

Please put it into perspective for me. Maybe i should rethink my options before its too late. Is it cheaper to build a 600hp motor with no power adders because i dont have to go through all the beefing up to keep it reliable on nitrous?

Last edited by kentactic; 11-22-2012 at 09:48 PM.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
I understand you can throw as much money as your heart desires at a motor. But are you saying its not possible to build a mild reliable nitrous motor for a good amount less then 10k? With what ive seen online for parts id have to do some work spending 10k. But im new to this like i said so maybe theres a lot im missing. The first link dosent work for me.
Yes it can be done for less than 10K. Your not building a MAX effort all out race motor. I agree with 68nova also.

Just build yourself a good solid bottom end. Go easy on the HP levels till you get the hang of it and have fun.

Talk to some people using spray and get some input on what their doing for a fuel pump. Most of my friends are using a dedicated pump for the spray and have pretty good luck with it.
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Old 11-22-2012, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by prostreet6t9 View Post
Yes it can be done for less than 10K. Your not building a MAX effort all out race motor. I agree with 68nova also.

Just build yourself a good solid bottom end. Go easy on the HP levels till you get the hang of it and have fun.

Talk to some people using spray and get some input on what their doing for a fuel pump. Most of my friends are using a dedicated pump for the spray and have pretty good luck with it.

Sounds like a plan. I figured aslong as i built a solid bottom end id be in decent shape. And agreed ill take it slow on the spray. And the fun factor is the most important. Im doing this specifically to keep my hands busy wrenching and not doing 12 ounce curls weekend after weekend.

No matter how it turns out it will all be worth it. Ive already learned so much and ive yet to turn a wrench.

I appreciate all the help guys! If i seem like im fighting the guys trying to help me its because i like to know why what is, IS. So i challenge things. Basically i question everything.

I will say though. Coming from the world of 4 bangers to the V8 world.... people are very nice!... i call a guy about a block on craigslist, find out its been sold or isnt what i was looking for and the guy still sits there and tells me anything im willing to listen to about how i should build the motor for 30 minutes! I havent interacted with one bad guy yet. The block i did buy for $100, the guy just threw in a nice "How to build a 350" book for the hell of it. Seems to be a great group of people.

Last edited by kentactic; 11-22-2012 at 10:20 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2012, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
Why is a 2 bolt better with nitrous?
The 2-bolt block is better only if the block is machined to use splayed 4-bolt caps to replace the stock 2-bolt caps (see images below).

2-BOLT OEM BLOCK


4-BOLT OEM BLOCK


4-BOLT SPLAYED CAP OEM BLOCK Using Milodon Caps

Now, if you were talking about the SBC 400 block, the 2-bolt block- even w/just 2 bolt caps- is thought by many to be stronger/less crack prone than the 4-bolt block because the bulkheads that support the main bearings and crankshaft are weaker on the 4-bolt 400 block.

But the 2-bolt 400 block using splayed 4-bolt caps would be the stronger of the three, just like the 350 type block.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 11-22-2012, 10:58 PM
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Everyone has an opinion. Some people have years of experience, and they know some stuff that works, and some stuff that doesn't. You will have to read all these posts, and decide for yourself what you want to do.
There is no easy answer, and there are many ways to do the same things. The only thing anyone can do to help you, is try to keep you from making the obvious major mistakes that most inexperienced engine builders make.
Also, machinists all have their own ideas. And oftentimes they contradict each other. So it is important for YOU to do your own research. That will serve to protect you from the bull*****ters out there.
My thoughts on your project:
600hp from a reasonably-priced 350 small block is a stretch. Don't focus on a specific power number. Instead, focus on building the best engine your budget and time-frame allows. 4-bolt block is fine. No more than .030 over. You will want to run a steel crank and forged pistons. You do not need H-beam rods. But you do need "good" rods. You also need ARP bolts everywhere on this engine. You WILL need to have it custom balanced. You should have the line bore checked. You should have the block decked. I would go with some good aluminum heads like AFR. Single plane intake like a Victor Jr. Decide your target RPM range and pick a cam that works in that range. The higher the RPM, the more expensive your engine needs to be. I would stay under 7,000rpm.
Run a mechanical lifter flat-tappet cam with full roller rockers. Double roller chain. GOOD oil pan. ( Not a chrome china stamped POS ) MSD 6AL or better ignition. Good fuel pump. If your pump is high pressure, run a regulator and a splitter for your nitrous system. I would not go over 200 on the kit. 150 would actually be better. They make good plate systems that run on 5-6psi fuel pressure. Your target compression ratio should be 10:1 if you plan to run pump gas. Be advised, you will have to pull some timing out when you spray it. ( Mixing some race-gas will make it run a little better. ) 750cfm race carb on the single plane. Good full length headers with at least 2 1/2" exhaust pipes.
This setup would be respectable, and not cost you an arm and a leg. Also be fairly reliable. The MSD 6AL would keep you from accidentally overreving it. Your machinist needs to setup all the clearances, ring gaps, and cam bearings. He also needs to do all the block work. YOU can do the assembly, if you are good with a torque wrench, and you understand pre-lube and proper sealants.
Your big-ticket items will be the aluminum heads, carb, the machine shop bill, and your crank-rods-pistons.
This motor could theoretically make over 400hp + 150 shot of spray.
( Would get you in the ballpark. ) PRICE? Maybe $5,000 or so, including the nitrous kit, but plan to spend more. Unexpected expenses always come up during the build.
I seen people buy a brand new STOCK 350 crate motor for $1,600... put a few bolt-ons on it: cam+springs, intake, carb, headers, MSD ignition... top it off with a 100hp nitrous kit, and go racing with much success in a LIGHT CAR. ( Like a VEGA, or even a Nova )
The thing is, if your chassis is heavy, you won't be quick. And the rest of your setup is just as important as the engine. The weight of your car, the tranny/converter, rear-end/tire setup and gearing is all critically important.
It all has to MATCH.
We used to be able to build some cool budget racers back in the day, but good rollers are getting harder to find, and prices have gone WAY up in the last 10 years on performance parts.
Good luck.
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
Im doing this specifically to keep my hands busy wrenching and not doing 12 ounce curls weekend after weekend.
No matter how it turns out it will all be worth it. Ive already learned so much and ive yet to turn a wrench.
I have to tell you, if you were not born a "gearhead", be prepared for frustration. You have no idea the long road ahead of you to complete a project like this. It will be one thing after another after another. So many people get halfway into it, become overwhelmed, and quit.

Just a friendly warning. This is not a casual sport. It's a lifestyle.

And even if you do manage to complete this project, be prepared to work on the thing for as long as you own it. These things need constant attention. You will be married to it.
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:10 PM
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My first 350 build

When talking about building a mild 300-400hp motor your talking about a 355, using aftermarket cast steel crank, 4340 I-Beam rods, hypereutectic pistons, 8740 or Arp2000 rod bolts. P-series main & rod bearingsfor about $900 in a 30 year old cast iron block. Some jump to the 383 ci. to gain extra cubic inches. Some go as far to install a set of $1200-$1500 aluminum heads usually not done on a budget. When you talk of 200-300 shot of nitrous this changes everything. You then want a 4340 forged steel crank, H-Beam 4340 alloy steel rod with Arp L19 hardware, forged pistons, H-series rod & main bearings. Usually at around 600 hp you start thinking about a aftermarket dart block. You then will have a choice of the stroke you want to use. Here is an example of a rotating assembly the average hotrodder would use. Scat Engine Rotating Assemblies 1-40010BI - SummitRacing.com. At $1900 then probably $600-$800 for block prep. Engine gasket kit ??? You then have the cam selection $350 non-roller or $1000 roller. Lifters. Valve springs and retainer with locks. Oil pump. Timing chain & gears set. Intake manifold and carburetor. Reworked ported heads or new aluminum heads. You said you would have a machinist to assembly it $2000. Sit down and make a parts list of what you want to work with and then start getting prices is the best way to start.
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
4-BOLT OEM BLOCK
But the 2-bolt 400 block using splayed 4-bolt caps would be the stronger of the three, just like the 350 type block.
Regarding the block:

You don't need an aftermarket block or splayed main-caps unless you spin the crap out of this engine. ( Well over 7,000 RPM's )

AND... if you plan to turn 8,000 rpms, then plan on a full mechanical roller cam setup. You just added another $1,000 to your cost.

Stay under 7k, keep the OEM 4-bolt block, save money, be happy.
( You still MUST custom balance your crank assembly! ) That is not an option.
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
When you talk of 200-300 shot of nitrous this changes everything.
AMEN brother.

He is absolutely correct. Which is why I suggested you run a 150hp plate kit. Keep it simple, and keep the costs down. Keep it reliable.
You said you are in this for the "fun factor". It's not "fun" when you trash your new engine because you are trying to run too much nitrous, and you don't have all your ducks in a row.
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:40 AM
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I do the same thing as most guys who has built cars.I tend to tell how much it costs and end up discouraging a guy just trying to start out.

So here is my advise of over 40yrs of racing.Don't build something you couldn't afford to replace.If that scales your plans back some it is for good reasons.
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