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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 632Mantis View Post
AMEN brother.

He is absolutely correct. Which is why I suggested you run a 150hp plate kit. Keep it simple, and keep the costs down. Keep it reliable.
You said you are in this for the "fun factor". It's not "fun" when you trash your new engine because you are trying to run too much nitrous, and you don't have all your ducks in a row.
Amen is right, that's exactly what Cobalt and I are saying, when he's talking 600 hp.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 03:31 AM
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One thing I didn't say is your need to over time acquire tools and equipment.I know what I started with and what I have now makes a world of difference.Just to have a good mix of nuts and bolts can cost a tidy sum.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by 632Mantis View Post
I have to tell you, if you were not born a "gearhead", be prepared for frustration. You have no idea the long road ahead of you to complete a project like this. It will be one thing after another after another. So many people get halfway into it, become overwhelmed, and quit.

Just a friendly warning. This is not a casual sport. It's a lifestyle.

And even if you do manage to complete this project, be prepared to work on the thing for as long as you own it. These things need constant attention. You will be married to it.
Oh no i was deffinatly born gearhead. Matter of fact i even have a skull with a gear in his head tattoo'd on my arm lol. Im the poor gearhead who cant even watch the speed channel because its like watching other people have sex with your wife. Its torture when you cant afford to do much. But im doin this no matter how long it takes. My previous guesstimation was a little low. I can do about 500 a month. So i should have this motor built within a year.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 08:03 AM
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Thanks everyone for the tips. I tend to dream big. Perhaps 2-300 shot is a castle in the sky on my budget. Back to reality. I need to keep this thing stupid simple.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
If you want to have the most fun with nitrous,, build a cheap *&^% motor that you won't cry over if/when it fails. It will only fail from a tuning mistake.
If a $7000 short block with all the goodies, fails, How much fun is that.

but if a $800 350 short block fails,, you can laugh and learn and do it again.

Learn to build you own simple basic 350's
A near stock motor with a big cam, good heads etc will go like hell and take a ton of nitrous.

couple keys high rpm from launch to finish. Do not launch at a low rpm on nitrous.
high stall converter.
Big duration cam that can rev and shifts the power and cylinder pressure up high.
Solid flat tappet is fine.
Get the exhaust out. big exhaust, big exhaust duration.
Good heads You need flow
good basic valvetain,, it has to rev
Good high octane fuel 110+ race gas.
Don;t be afraid to hit it hard. It will take it.
Large piston rind end gaps, larger piston to wall clearance
Watch the timing on nitrous... nitrous speeds up the combustion.
A tunnel ram works really well with nitrous..
I like the idea. If i can get away with a cast rotating assembly thats cool. On my CRX on nitrous id launch around 3k and stay 3/4 throttle until it hooked up and then go WOT to spray. It was on a WOT switch.

Will 110 save me some money on parts or is it more of a safety thing. For example will running 110 with a good top end make it capable of running a cast assembly?

Last edited by kentactic; 11-23-2012 at 09:00 AM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
My budget for the motor is bassically unlimited as ill just throw money at it check by check. but id like to have the motor completed in 9 months or so. Calculate that with my available income and it would ideally be around a $3500 motor. If that price is unrealistic ill just have to extend the build time.
The budget for the engine is "basically unlimited" and he's going to throw money at it check to check.So this opens a door to one school of thought.

Then a time frame of only"9 months". I am thinking it is going to take longer than that funds wise.

But a price point of $3500.

And him saying that if $3500 isn't enough,"I'll have to extend the build time". To that end I agree.

So here is what I am thinking.Certainly there are still new developments in first gen SBC's all the time.But all those are being overshadowed by the LSx series engines.Especially LSx series engines with power adders.I just don't want to suggest a first gen that he is spending as he can to have finish and over time have built,that gets run over with the tech from a LSx series engine.Is it going to cost him more??. Yes,yes it is. But as he can check to check build it,the long term investment would be better and closer to the current tech going on. I then is a matter of commitment to the build,but I believe a positive suggestion.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 10:50 AM
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The guy doesnt even have a car to put the engine in,,,, He should take the 3500 and buy a clean V-8 late 90s Camaro and take it to the track the day after he buys it.On street tires and stock trim it will get him down the track with very little costs. Buy tires as required and update and improve as budget allows...
Building a gen 1 small block for maybe a fox car in the future? seriously?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
The guy doesnt even have a car to put the engine in,,,, He should take the 3500 and buy a clean V-8 late 90s Camaro and take it to the track the day after he buys it.On street tires and stock trim it will get him down the track with very little costs. Buy tires as required and update and improve as budget allows...
Building a gen 1 small block for maybe a fox car in the future? seriously?

To each their own but screwing around with a clunker with unknown cans of worms every where dosent sound like much fun. Sounds like more of a money pitt then just building it totally right the first time. Why spend money on parts on a running car i dont plan to use? My dodge neon is as fast as a stock 90's camaro...just saying..
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
The budget for the engine is "basically unlimited" and he's going to throw money at it check to check.So this opens a door to one school of thought.

Then a time frame of only"9 months". I am thinking it is going to take longer than that funds wise.

But a price point of $3500.

And him saying that if $3500 isn't enough,"I'll have to extend the build time". To that end I agree.

So here is what I am thinking.Certainly there are still new developments in first gen SBC's all the time.But all those are being overshadowed by the LSx series engines.Especially LSx series engines with power adders.I just don't want to suggest a first gen that he is spending as he can to have finish and over time have built,that gets run over with the tech from a LSx series engine.Is it going to cost him more??. Yes,yes it is. But as he can check to check build it,the long term investment would be better and closer to the current tech going on. I then is a matter of commitment to the build,but I believe a positive suggestion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
To each their own but screwing around with a clunker with unknown cans of worms every where dosent sound like much fun. Sounds like more of a money pitt then just building it totally right the first time. Why spend money on parts on a running car i dont plan to use? My dodge neon is as fast as a stock 90's camaro...just saying..
This isn't about what you have now in the Neon.I posted the above as just a engine build like you asked.It is some important forward thinking in your behalf...................
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 11:32 AM
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I hope you are successful in your quest. At mission raceway we have an old Mustang with a 355 chevy in it.mid 10s,beautiful car--expensive build.
We also have a 77 Camaro with a 383,the kind with the distributor in the front of the engine.I think its a 13 second street car,low budget,just did it because he thought he could.
Engine swapping is what hot rodding is all about. some ideas are practical,some are just whims.Can it be done+yes,then ask why you would do that? are there better ideas? what will this project cost when done? what will you have when its finished? what will it be worth?
My project is a very good example of what is not a good idea,but I like it,so I did it.

Hope that w/e you have at the end is what you really really want
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 12:02 PM
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This may sound like a VERY strange idea, but I'd build your car to handle that power, then build a good turbo and induction system. Run that on a stock long block with maybe a solid flat tappet cam swap. If and when it pops you just need another $300 long block. BTW, for 600fwhp you only need a modest 10-15 pounds of boost. Turbos are a LOT easier on an engine than nitrous too.

Its about the cheapest way to get into the 10s and STAY there.
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Old 11-23-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
I hope you are successful in your quest. At mission raceway we have an old Mustang with a 355 chevy in it.mid 10s,beautiful car--expensive build.
We also have a 77 Camaro with a 383,the kind with the distributor in the front of the engine.I think its a 13 second street car,low budget,just did it because he thought he could.
Engine swapping is what hot rodding is all about. some ideas are practical,some are just whims.Can it be done+yes,then ask why you would do that? are there better ideas? what will this project cost when done? what will you have when its finished? what will it be worth?
My project is a very good example of what is not a good idea,but I like it,so I did it.

Hope that w/e you have at the end is what you really really want
Thank you. I believe i have a vision and a plan. Only time, money, and bloody knuckles will tell if it will go as i think it will.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
This isn't about what you have now in the Neon.I posted the above as just a engine build like you asked.It is some important forward thinking in your behalf...................
Yes i appreciate the idea. The Neon thing wasnt directed at you. If i knew what you know i may very well go that route. But i know what i know and that aint much in the specifics of these motors. My motto is simplicity is ideal. Ive got to go with what i know.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
To each their own but screwing around with a clunker with unknown cans of worms every where dosent sound like much fun. Sounds like more of a money pitt then just building it totally right the first time. Why spend money on parts on a running car i dont plan to use? My dodge neon is as fast as a stock 90's camaro...just saying..

well now thats a trick becasue i have done this for years now and i always start with a running car. That has many advantages for me.

You never know what parts you are going to need until you get it built. so having a complete car you know you have that funny bolt or braket that is going to stop the project if you cant find it. Also cost should not be much more they are cheap these days. Finding one running will probably be the same price.

Fox body? are you going for a 10.5 outlaw or one of the other 10.5 race class of car. Mustangs are good and very cheap. You can get one for few hundred bucks. Chevy motor is cheap and easy to build and will make your mustang race worthy if done right.

You should know that stock mounting points for suspension will up the cost of the build. If you are just bracket racing a stock camero may not be a bad way to go. they are not that heavy and either way you will be reworking the rear to get it right.

FYI I ripped the torque boxes out of my 86 SVO with a four banger and slicks at the track. Be prepared for some stuff to break. i never figured the control arms could push the floor of the car out with less than 300 hp.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 11-23-2012, 09:23 PM
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A 750-800 hp sbc built w/junk parts or "normal" 400 hp parts? Sounds like a short fuse at best. I could maybe see half again as much (500-600 hp MAX), not double the hp.
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