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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2012, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
Ya i realize weve been over this already but yet again im being told in plain english that so and so will work. So i ask for confirmation. Either it works or it dosent. I have stated 600hp as my goal. I then am told i can get away with a stock bottom end with forged pistons. So i confirm this with a more specific question and then recieve a "well with that power your pushing it". It seems some have total other builds in mind as they give me advice for mine. Im grateful for all the posts in this thread. But i have to filter through all this to figure out what applies to my build.
When we run the car on the bottle we run 114 race gas.The car uses a bottle in 4 runs.I has every electronic trick on it you can think of and some I won't tell you about.Point is have you bought any 114 race gas lately??. Then refills on the bottle. It gets $$$$$$$$ in a hurry.

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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2012, 11:13 PM
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Now here is the bottom line truth.Nitrous properly used is a tool to mph cars. Guy have converted that into a cheap(well looks that way from outside the circle)crutch for engines that if built on N/A wouldn't need it.So you end up not OWNING the hp your using because your constantly making payments in refills of the bottle and trust me that bottle is addictive.
It is for that reason a turbo 5.3 is more sensible.You paid to built it once and you OWN all the 600 hp in your goal and it will bury a 383 in gas mileage as a bonus.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 02:20 AM
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My opinion:

LSx are nice- but not the end-all do-all of the hotrodding world. You can still make a TON of power using Gen 1 stuff. Just look around the next time you're at the track. You do go to the track, right? Otherwise 600 hp is worthless. TOTALLY overkill for the street. 600 hp is a ridiculous amount of power for the street and takes a LOT of work on the vehicle's suspension and drivetrain to handle it reliably. Are you POSITIVE you need that much?

Scat crank kits are preferred over Eagle.

Buy forged crank/rods/pistons and use good rings (Hellfire, etc.) if you want to use a big dose of laughing gas.

Spend some time researching the valvetrain- including the camshaft. Use 7/16" studs for cripes sake. Keep the cam lobe separation angle wide, or better yet just contact a cam manufacturer w/ALL the details of the engine and let them give you some suggestions.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
LSx are nice- but not the end-all do-all of the hotrodding world. You can still make a TON of power using Gen 1 stuff. Just look around the next time you're at the track. You do go to the track, right? Otherwise 600 hp is worthless. TOTALLY overkill for the street. 600 hp is a ridiculous amount of power for the street and takes a LOT of work on the vehicle's suspension and drivetrain to handle it reliably. Are you POSITIVE you need that much?

Scat crank kits are preferred over Eagle.

Buy forged crank/rods/pistons and use good rings (Hellfire, etc.) if you want to use a big dose of laughing gas.

Spend some time researching the valvetrain- including the camshaft. Use 7/16" studs for cripes sake. Keep the cam lobe separation angle wide, or better yet just contact a cam manufacturer w/ALL the details of the engine and let them give you some suggestions.
Again its going to be specifically for the track. I realise 600hp is crazy for the street. Thanks for the tips on components.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
Again its going to be specifically for the track. I realise 600hp is crazy for the street. Thanks for the tips on components.
I apologize, I should have refreshed my memory.

I know this has been mentioned already, but it cannot be stressed enough. The chassis is every bit a part of the total picture as the powerplant. Nothing is worse than getting your doors blown off by a well sorted car that has half the engine you have. And if you can't 60' w/it, that's going to happen a lot more than you're gonna like. Nitrous and 600 hp, etc. is all well and good, but playing catch up all the time gets old real fast. IMO it's MUCH better to have a killer 60' that pins you to the seat PLUS a hellacious top end charge.

At the risk of asking something else that you've already answered, what do you plan on putting the engine in?
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:23 AM
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To reiterate what cobalt said with an example:
My car has a decent N.A. 434 gen 1,a friend of mine has a C-6 with an LS-3 and hot cam.My car is lighter and I have a lot more horse power. We did a little comparitive driving,he had traction control off. both cars are standard. First gear he was 1/2 a car ahead. second gear we both broke traction and he was able to pedal better and he has superior tires. The new car also has far superior suspension and independent rear. his car handles better/stops faster/accelerates about equal in 1st and 2nd,weighs more and has less power,gets better mileage,more comfortable,quieter and the list goes on
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 09:34 AM
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My first 350 build

Kenny, have you considered building a 454 big block chevy. You can build a n/a 454 motor with about 596 hp and 566 ft. lb. torque. You would need a forged 454 crank, H-Beam rods, good set of forged pistons. Heads can be iron, ported and new valves, and all new hardware or an aftermarket set of aluminum heads. Since this is a track motor I would look for 320-340 intake runner. Comp cams 294S mechanical flat tappet or equivalent with matching valve springs. Super Victor intake with a 1000 cfm Holley. Then with a 150 shot of nitrous you have 750 hp. You can look around in papers like the Trading Post,I have seen people selling 454 parts at some good prices. Everybody going stroker or 540 & up CID.
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327 View Post
I apologize, I should have refreshed my memory.

I know this has been mentioned already, but it cannot be stressed enough. The chassis is every bit a part of the total picture as the powerplant. Nothing is worse than getting your doors blown off by a well sorted car that has half the engine you have. And if you can't 60' w/it, that's going to happen a lot more than you're gonna like. Nitrous and 600 hp, etc. is all well and good, but playing catch up all the time gets old real fast. IMO it's MUCH better to have a killer 60' that pins you to the seat PLUS a hellacious top end charge.

At the risk of asking something else that you've already answered, what do you plan on putting the engine in?

Well i was considering a fox body mustang but it dosent seem to be the easiest route based on other responses in this thread. Im open to any ideas fir small light cars that would be less work to get setup right.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by cdminter59 View Post
Kenny, have you considered building a 454 big block chevy. You can build a n/a 454 motor with about 596 hp and 566 ft. lb. torque. You would need a forged 454 crank, H-Beam rods, good set of forged pistons. Heads can be iron, ported and new valves, and all new hardware or an aftermarket set of aluminum heads. Since this is a track motor I would look for 320-340 intake runner. Comp cams 294S mechanical flat tappet or equivalent with matching valve springs. Super Victor intake with a 1000 cfm Holley. Then with a 150 shot of nitrous you have 750 hp. You can look around in papers like the Trading Post,I have seen people selling 454 parts at some good prices. Everybody going stroker or 540 & up CID.


Its worth considering but i think im too mentally invested in the 350 already. I can see going big block happening in the future though.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 11:32 AM
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Have you looked at write ups like this. I know everyone like to yell about these mags not being right all the time. You can whine all you want these are the parts i would buy if building an engine. I havent used the heads but other WOP heads have been very nice. I can only assume these are good quality as well. i would also go for the aluminum heads if you plan on spray this combo is pretty border line on CR.

Only issue is this is spected for a one piece rear main seal block but i think they are using retrofit lifters.
Chevy 383 Engine - We Build a Small-Block That Makes 500HP and 500 LB-FT - Hot Rod Magazine

They got 500 repeatable hp out of this combo and a little shot of juice and you got your combo is done.

Now if you get 500 without the juice then you can probably only run a few tenths faster with it hooked up. I would get the 500 dailed in and running as fast and as straight as it can. then move on to the next step. Only concern is you might be able to add in a cam made to nos that will give you a little better bang when you hit the spray. But I no nothing about nos i try to avoid it. You will need to ask someone else about that part of the build.

Hope this helps.
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
Well i was considering a fox body mustang but it dosent seem to be the easiest route based on other responses in this thread. Im open to any ideas fir small light cars that would be less work to get setup right.
What class do you want to race in. I didnt see that posted. Fox body mustang is the right car for some classes. Just depends on what your trying to do. Any car will need some major rework to put 600 puppies to the ground.
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 03:01 PM
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What class do you want to race in. I didnt see that posted. Fox body mustang is the right car for some classes. Just depends on what your trying to do. Any car will need some major rework to put 600 puppies to the ground.
Im not really shooting for any class. Just want to play around.

I was just thinking... S10. Is that a terrible idea?
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 03:11 PM
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I am going switch gears alittle.Still think in the long run your better off spending into a LSx.

We have a whole career buying distress project roller cars where the builder had to have the best of everything,but ran out of money and was behind on his bills.You just missed the Drag Racer's auction in Indy where there is a number of rollers that are run threw there.

You need to decide what kind of car you want.Doorslammer,open car,etc.

It is way much cheaper to buy a roller over building one.You just need to know what to look for or post it here before you buy.Look at this link for rollers:

Race, performance & street cars, engines, engine parts, trailers for sale
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kentactic View Post
Im not really shooting for any class. Just want to play around.

I was just thinking... S10. Is that a terrible idea?
Well if you pick a class it will save you some cash over all. Just becasue you will need to follow class rules. If you want to bracket race then 500 or 600 doesnt really matter, just how well its dailed in.

I would go to the local track where you plan to race and see what is what. Ask everyone what they do and stay to see who is left at the end of the night.

As for race car only i have my Heart set on a pro street vette eithe early 50's style or split window style. You can buy tube chassis and bodies for both. Fully built race car without a single original part. usally about 15-25k

Mustang will be faster than an s10. Camero is very areo dynamic but a little heavier. S10 is shapped like a brick they can go fast but takes more power. They are a little easier to tube. Vega, monza, mavrick, pinto, mustnag 2 are all light choices that have good parts available.
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Old 11-26-2012, 04:03 PM
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I am going switch gears alittle.Still think in the long run your better off spending into a LSx.

We have a whole career buying distress project roller cars where the builder had to have the best of everything,but ran out of money and was behind on his bills.You just missed the Drag Racer's auction in Indy where there is a number of rollers that are run threw there.

You need to decide what kind of car you want.Doorslammer,open car,etc.

It is way much cheaper to buy a roller over building one.You just need to know what to look for or post it here before you buy.Look at this link for rollers:

Race, performance & street cars, engines, engine parts, trailers for sale
Id prefer it as light as possible what ever vehicle so gutted doors welded shut would be in order. It will ride a trailer to and from the track.
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