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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 04:09 PM
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I'd put the timing back in, but you should be close enough now with the rear blades to just add a little throttle by way of the front idle screw. It won't hurt to add a half turn if needed to the front blades now to get the idle speed you want, that is why it has an adjustment screw and not just a stop.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbahotep
This post probably needs a new title since its all carb at this point. lol. Heres whats happening:

I lowered the idle screw until I got a square hole. I could remove the screw and still have the hole the same size so at least NO IDLE screw pressure is a good starting point without removing the carb again

I then adjusted the little secondary screw under the carb (small inset screw). I turned it 1 full turn as a test and reinstalled the carb

Car starts easily, seems to have no kickback, but unless I dive out from the drivers seat to give some throttle shes gonna stall. Anything under 2000rpm seems to idle like total crap and she'll stall at whatever idle speed its set down to. I estimate its at 500rpm.

I did not yet increase my timing at idle which is 18'

If I increase the secondary openings (I can move the plates manually from the side of the carb) I can raise my idle rpm so she wont stall. This is the same as turning the screw under the carb without actually doing so. If I adjust the idle screw it also does the same BUT that defeats the purpose here since I want to keep my plate where they are.

So, should I increase the secondary openings MORE (which is sucking in more gas to do so) until I get a good idle or should I raise my idle timing more? Or both?
Your primary throttle blades are miss adjusted from what I can see. If the picture is correct, with the throttle blades in the closed position the transfer slot is exposed to the bottom of the blade. If this is so, the throttle stop needs to be adjusted till the transfer slot is above the top of the throttle blade.

I don't recall how much cam your using, if this has a high performance cam with a real low idle vacuum, it may be necessary to either adjust the secondary blade stop to admit more air, or the primary blades drilled to admit more idle air.

As it looks to me now, with the transfer slots exposed to idle vacuum, you're getting fuel from both circuits which will cause a rich and largely uncontrollable idle mixture along with a flat spot when the throttle is tipped in.

Bogie
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich27028
hey i didnt save that thread -- it was a good joke while it lasted--
what was nice was every one was a gentelman and didnt go off the deep end --that evening the mod called me and ask if i had a son and was my car ok--
some times we take life to serious and its fun to pull some ones chain --

i was serious about his timing --its to far advanced- and his motor should not shake all over the engine bay-- and good lope is different than shakeing--
id be worryed about the kicking back on the starter--

I agree the timing sounds high, saw he mentioned 18 idle . I run a little larger cam, total is 36 and the stroker motor loves it . Hard start and especially the word that jumps off the screen .. kick back is timing as you describe .

Tune timing and go to fuel, quick way to performance

..... I was yanked .............. very funny
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2009, 07:36 PM
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Wednesday I'll have time to readjust more secondary and little more "idle" screw to see if I can get a good idle rpm. So far I have not touched my timing which is still 18' idle. As it is now I have zero idle screw turned in and am fumbling at 500 rpm

Thanks for the advice so far. I think the carb has been my trouble for a long time. reading back in this post you'll see that I used to idle at 38' timing which compensated for the low idle-screw-adjustment and then when I added the msd timing computer I dropped my idle timing down to 18' and raised the idle-screw-mixture to bring my rpm back up which is where things went wrong

EDIT: As for timing, I think I dead on correct. Check this old post where a user "454c10" mentions 20' - 25' initial and 40' total
acceleration flat spot in carb.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 03:22 PM
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Heres an update and opinions would be appreciated:

I bought a holley book which confirms everything posted here. Still, I have a minor issue if you read:

1) Got my IDLE SPEED screw almost down to zero. Its maybe 1/4 turn now and under the carb is "square"

2) My idle MIXTURE screws are about 1 turn out each. Any farther in the car begins to stall, farther out does nothing

3) I have the SECONDARIES opened just slightly. Maybe the thickness of 2 pieces of paper opening. Very very small

Car idles at 1000 rpm with this setup, BUT, to me it feels like its not a clean idle. Its almost feels like a fouled plug (these are litterallly 2 weeks old). Revving the engine the car seems ok, no backfire no roughness.

If I grab the secondary rod (to open them more) I can get the car to go into any rpm I want. 3000 rpm is possible. So I'll assume I DONT want to mess with the secondary adjustment anymore

The Holley book I got says that sometimes you ALSO need to drill the holes in the plates but it doesnt say what might indicate I need to do so.

I raised my idle timing from 18 to 30' for ZERO affect. The car didnt seem to idle any better.

Is it possible I also need a hole or 2 in the plates for more air?

Right now Im at 1000 rpm idle but a bit rocky. Even with my setup I know this car can idle smooth at 800rpm even with the k-klack k-klack of the engine.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 06:42 PM
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Sounds to me like maybe you have opened the back up too much and shut the front down too far, don't get too hung up on having a "perfectly square" T-slot opening on the front, just reasonably close to square is good. You may be pulling too much through the rear T-slot now.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
Sounds to me like maybe you have opened the back up too much and shut the front down too far, don't get too hung up on having a "perfectly square" T-slot opening on the front, just reasonably close to square is good. You may be pulling too much through the rear T-slot now.
lol, this is CRAZY. Too much air from the back? I have a bent screw driver that lets me turn the secondary adjustment screw while running. I know that if I back-off on the secondary opening my idle drops....so then I should increase on the IDLE SPEED screw to compensate?

Im going to try it again tomorrow but first Im pulling every spark plug to make sure they're not fouled. I have such a nice rpm now except for the damn stumble I can feel.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbahotep
I know that if I back-off on the secondary opening my idle drops....so then I should increase on the IDLE SPEED screw to compensate?
I would first use the idle mixture screws to compensate for the 2'ndary being tightened up. Only then use the idle speed screw.

Your idle mixture screws should have a larger range of adjustment than you've described, but that's neither here nor there at this point.

Adjust the 2'ndary blades tighter, then idle mixture screws, then idle speed- if needed. See where that leaves you.

After you get the idle where it's stable, work on the accelerator pump adjustments if the stumble is right off idle.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2009, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbahotep
lol, this is CRAZY. Too much air from the back? I have a bent screw driver that lets me turn the secondary adjustment screw while running. I know that if I back-off on the secondary opening my idle drops....so then I should increase on the IDLE SPEED screw to compensate?

Im going to try it again tomorrow but first Im pulling every spark plug to make sure they're not fouled. I have such a nice rpm now except for the damn stumble I can feel.
I gotta git outa here, but have some to say. Meanwhile, how about getting the specific numbers off that Holley, they don't all work the same way on the idle system, looks like we need to figure out exactly what this beast is.

Bogie
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 10:19 AM
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Bogie, carb is a 3310 which is a 4150 holley I think? Vac secondaries , 750cfm, no choke mechanism but the choke plate is there, on an automatic 2004r. The only thing ever changed was the power valves about 15 years ago. Everything else is stock holley. The powervalves I understood you tested them by trying to stall the car with turning idle screws way in. Stall means valves are good. They should not affect idle anyway I thought?

Jets are stock and I don't know what they are offhand

I have no off idle stumble, no dead spot. It just seems a bit choppy to me at 1000rpm idle when I used to be at 800 and not as choppy (even though I had the plates too far open). I'll be checking my plugs tonight
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 11:28 AM
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3310's can be either a 4150 or 4160- difference is (mainly) in whether there's a metering "block" for the 2'ndary side or a metering "plate".

A metering block-equipped 3310 (4150-style) will have the same size metering block in the back as it has in the front. This is located between the float bowl and the body of the carb, a metering block is about 3/4" thick, give or take.

I would be replacing that 15-year-old power valve, if it were me. It doesn't need to leak to be bad- once they're gas-soaked than allowed to dry out, they can become stiff and less responsive to manifold vacuum than it should be.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 12:13 PM
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2 blocks on mine. Front side has the idle mix screws, rear has nothing. Correct?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbahotep
2 blocks on mine. Front side has the idle mix screws, rear has nothing. Correct?
4150- you are absolutely correct!
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 12:25 PM
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Oops, I'm wrong. Just looked at a photo and the rear bowl is straight to the main body. My error. I could have sworn I had 2, dreaming I guess

1 block
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbahotep
Oops, I'm wrong. Just looked at a photo and the rear bowl is straight to the main body. My error. I could have sworn I had 2, dreaming I guess

1 block
No biggie- this just makes it a bit of a beach to tune the 2'ndary jetting.

There are different 2'ndary plates available, you can modify the existing plate w/a pin vice (tiny twist drill bits w/a holder)- and there are ways (if needed) to convert to a 4150-style so as to have removable jets like the primary side.

In most cases, these 3310's are good carbs out of the box, requiring mainly primary jetting and accelerator pump tuning to bring them in real good.

You can cross the bridge in regards to 2'ndary jetting when (and if) the time comes, IMO.
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