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Old 01-02-2005, 12:38 PM
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name brand vs off brand solid lifters???

Is there an advantage to using name brand solid flat tappet lifters verses "white box" parts. I can't see paying $85 for comps when I can buy generics for half that much.

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Old 01-02-2005, 02:31 PM
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i have a comp magnum 280 hyd. cam that i got with the lifters and ijust didn't think that they were quality pieces.since then i'm pretty sold on chevy race lifters hyd. or solid they are the same price.i bought a set about 1 1/2 yrs. ago and paid about 4.70 ea..and yes it is very important to use a quality lifter with a perf. cam and valve train.if you don't you may as well get the generic cam too.there are places you can skimp but thats not one of them.good luck.
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Old 01-02-2005, 02:55 PM
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Lifters are made by just a handful of companies. If you guy a Comp Cams hydraulic lifter, you are buying a lifter made by the same people who make Sealed Power lifters. But you will pay more for the CC name.

You can get lifters cheaper by shopping around. But most cam companies will only guarantee their cams if you buy their cams AND lifters together (that's how they get around a lot of warrantee problems).

tom
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Old 01-02-2005, 03:08 PM
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I can see how there are differences between hyd lifters - retention of the plunger... Although I have always heard that there are very few companies making lifters. Solids contain no moving parts so I can't see how it would matter who made them. The warranty issue is a good one though.
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Old 01-02-2005, 03:12 PM
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upLIFTERing conversation

Dittos what machine shop tom says.

There are essentially 4 kinds of hydraulic lifters.
The stock type, which do a good yeoman service.
Heavy duties, not sure exactly what that means.
Hi performance, which are designed to bleed down faster, having a larger oil port or ports in the side of the lifter.
And the variable duration type such as Rhodes, and a couple others make, which are essentially a modification of the Hi performance lifters.
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Old 01-02-2005, 03:14 PM
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I have seen several complaints on this board of Comp cams flattening out the lobes.Can not understand why there is such a problem with them.I do not know who makes my Summit cam but if there are problems with Comp that are legitamate one should shy away from their lifters also,right? If by chance Comp did the grind on my Summit than I have had zero problems with it,been running strong and daily for over 1 year so far.
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Old 01-02-2005, 03:23 PM
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wearing out too fast

There is a little known secret to most all cases of premature cam and lifter wear. Its called installer error or neglegence.

Ive had only one cam ever go flat on me, and that was due to my own fault.

Its quite easy to dump on someone else when its a mistake made either through carelessness or ignorance of how the job should be properly done.

Granted, in years past there have been some problems with certain "Lots" of cams that came out improperly hardened and that happens with lifters as well, but very seldom with reputable companies.
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Old 01-02-2005, 03:25 PM
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cam and lifter set

If you buy a cam and lifter set (all in one box). You save 25 bucks or so, over buying them separately.
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Old 01-02-2005, 03:27 PM
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cams and lifters

In my eyes, buying them as a set is the best way to go.
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Old 01-02-2005, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Its called installer error or neglegence.

Very good point.I have not had any problems with mine.I have also only installed a few Comp Cams before.Never had any problems with them.The most often cam I have installed was the Wolverine Blue Racer series.Never had any problems with them either.I just recalled seeing several complaints on the Comp piece and was curious if there was a manufacturing flaw at the time.
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Old 01-02-2005, 03:49 PM
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Re: wearing out too fast

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Max Keith
[B]There is a little known secret to most all cases of premature cam and lifter wear. Its called installer error or neglegence.

This is a good point, but there were some lifters floating around for some time that were junk. I got a set!!! I am thankful it wasn't a customer's engine it was one of my own. Tom is right there are only like 2 or maybe 3 now places that make lifters. As a general rule if the cam goes flat before it's broken in it was a installation error.
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Old 01-02-2005, 03:53 PM
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cams

Ive used Wolverine, Elgin, Sig Erson, Isky, Comp Cams, Crane, Schnieder, Lunati, Camresearch, and a few white box cams and have only had a problem with one cam, and that was my own fault.

Exactly right, The first 2 minutes in a cams life are the most critical.

The last performance cam I purchased was a custom ground one from Camresearch, a Ford Specialist out fit. I had the cam pre run in by them before they shipped it. Not a single complaint could I have with it.
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Old 01-02-2005, 06:14 PM
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Max Keith, The Heavy Duty lifter has a harder face friction welded to the end of the lifter. These usually have a groove around the lifter about 1/8" up from the wear face. I used to buy GM lifters when they were made by AC spark plug in Flint, Michigan. I had the opportunity to see them made. A few years later I also happened to get some bad ones. The faces were not welded properly and broke off, causing catastrophic damage.
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Old 01-02-2005, 07:57 PM
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upLIFTERed

Thanks for that bit of info. I really wasnt sure what was the basis for a heavy duty lifter, never used them.
Ive always used performance lifters in all applications.
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Old 01-02-2005, 08:33 PM
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As cams go I'm sold on Comp. They make the most power. They do this by very aggressive cam profiles that are closer to a roller profile than most other companies grind their cams. This does put additional strain on the lobe/lifter contact. Essentially a trade off of durability for performance.
As Max stated installation error is the most common reason for cams going flat. When a cam with over .500" lift is broke in it is often good to reduce spring pressure by using softer springs, removing the innner spring or using a low ratio rocker. The 1.6 and 1.65 ratio rockers are not good for breakin with high lift max velocity profiles.

Another reason for early cam wear is poor oiling. If a device is installed on an engine that bleeds oil pressure off(ie turbo) the cam may not oil properly. Then there are also things like rust in oil passages or even babbit from rod/main bearings that affect the cam.

On a very aggressive profile a carb can make the cam go flat. ? you say. Carb floods, washes down the cylinder walls and microscopic pieces of iron and gas make it into the oil. The oil thins and increased friction is put on the cam. Also the babbit from the rods/mains begins to make it to the cam when excessive fuel makes it into the oil.

Comp has a name to uphold. They spend countless hours maximizing profiles for power but they do this in controlled enviroments, proper breakin, fresh oil, perfect air/fuel ratios and when any of these variables are off it affects these max velocity profiles in a negative way.

If the variables are met even poor products will last some time. For example my buddy put a Lunati 515 lift cam in his 383. He eventually broke a piston and on disassembly I noticed a lifter was of very poor quality with the surface being wrinkled and pitted. Even with this poor quality lifter, due to proper breakin, maintinance and tuning the cam survived.
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If you are looking for seperate lifters see if you can get the rockwell hardness(the higher the better ie "62"). Shop around and compare.
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