[MDVette313]

Hey guys, new to the forum... I'm doing a restoration/rebuild on my 1989 k1500 plow truck. I'm new to paint, I had bought a devilbiss finishline several years ago to paint a boat, which went well but I'm new to the auto side of things. Anyways I did all of my body work to my truck, did etch primer on the bare metal spots and then a 1 part primer (Napa Part qtfp405) over the whole truck, 2 coats. Sanded 600. Then used Napa QTFS512 sealer over the truck waited the flash time then sprayed my martin senour single stage urethane 54-B (blue metallic) crossfire series, was told to do a 5-1-1 ratio...the napa paint rep. crossed out crossfire reducer on the tech sheet and wrote tsr4 reducer (and said this is what we use now) and sold me that reducer.....Shot the truck with 3 coats, let dry over night and go to look at it and is has major major orange paint, feels like an naval orange too, no smooth spots what so ever. I figured I messed up whether I was too close or low pressure or my 1.3 tip was wrong...so I call napa paint rep to see where I went wrong, this time the smart guy answers the phone, and I tell him the dilemma, and he asks what products his co worker sold me, ends up the reducer they sold me is not meant for the paint and he admitted they were wrong! They offered to give me more paint and the right reducer for free. I'm not willing to settle at this. Called Martin Senour and they said napa is responsible, also that I can re-coat the paint thats bad if it sands to a dust or if it gums up or is soft that I need to strip it all. Anyways Napa couldn't do anything until tomorrow until the main manager is on duty.

My questions for you guys are:
1. I sanded and its semi dusting but all the dust is gumming together ( kinda like if you rub a peeling sunburn and it makes the small crescent shaped rolls of skin) only analogy I could think of. Do you think I should strip it all off? Its been 48 hours since I sprayed the paint and heat was on for the first 14 hours at 75 degrees.

2. What should I expect to get out napa for all this? I spent roughly $450 on just the primer, sealer, paint (hardeners and wrong reducers included)... I have no idea how long it will take me to strip the paint if it cant be sanded because of gumming. And I'm running out of time since my spring semester of college starts monday.

3. Any other advice is welcome!

Thanks in advanced.

[matt167]

I don't know the specifics of the primer you bought, because I don't have M-S product lines memorized.. but a 1K primer is usually a lacquer.. lacquer primer and urethane paints do not mix, and I believe that may be your problem

[MDVette313]

Originally Posted by matt167

I don't know the specifics of the primer you bought, because I don't have M-S product lines memorized.. but a 1K primer is usually a lacquer.. lacquer primer and urethane paints do not mix, and I believe that may be your problem

Yes I believe its lacquer but I used a sealer to cover it up. Napa said the problem was because it was the wrong reducer, which they admitted selling me the wrong one. What do you think I should get for their mistake?

[milo]

Originally Posted by MDVette313

What do you think I should get for their mistake?

They offered you to replace it with the"right" reducer..that was nice of them..
Does it say " For professional use" on the can?

If it does then they are free from responsibility for what the painter does when he assumes responsibility..


Let the thing sit for a few days then sand flat with 400 and re-coat..

[matt167]

If it is lacquer, then it may not be the reducers fault. even if you sealed it, you'v still got stuff that doesn't mix and it will cause reactions like that... My advice would be to take the free stuff before they change their mind.. it was your responsibility to make sure you were getting the right stuff.. even if they have a 'paint guy'. it is still an auto parts store and not an auto body supply... Always follow the tech sheet

[Underground]

Yeah, get the materials. Don't expect to get anything else. They aren't going to pay for the labor or what you think its worth.

[1971BB427]

I'd get whatever materials they'll offer and call it good. That's better than most will offer!

[MDVette313]

Update, Went to the Napa store to speak with the head manager. Didn't give me the time of day, said he knew nothing about paint and that I would have to wait until monday for the paint manager to get back from vacation. (the paint manager is the one who messed the job up to begin with). I had done my research in advanced and had other names and numbers ready to go, so when the main manager didn't give me the time of day, I told him I hope you don't mind me calling the district manager... and so I went to my car and made the call, since this store happened to be the main distribution center the district managers office was right on the other side of the building, he said go back into the store and I'll meet you there. He didn't like the issue, once he (the district manager) proved to himself they sold me the wrong product, he offered the right products free of charge to complete the job. I said what about everything else that goes into redoing this job like respirator and coveralls and sandpaper etc. I told him I wouldn't have had to buy these things again if your employee didn't mess up my first spray. So he agreed to give me those items. Then it was time for my labor, he said he couldn't do anything about that, so I mentioned how his employee made an express warranty with me and I had the right to sue for damages, and court would be an easy route. So he immediately asked what I thought I deserved, I said lets start with refunding my visa for the price of the original paint, he said we can't do anything cash but he could give me a store credit/giftcard for the amount. (I never settled at this point) So about the issue if the whole car needed to be stripped or just sanded, they wanted the napa paint rep to come out to my house to check out the job which was 20 mins away, so I told them i'll just bring a fender in, in an hour. Went home and grabbed a fender and brought it in.... when I got back they had a box of all the stuff to do prep and coveralls, respirator, along with the napa paint rep. and the martin senour paint rep waiting to see this fender. They knew it was a mess, we sanded it there and it dusted fine, the extra day of drying eliminated the gumming. We decided that I would 600 the whole car, 2k urethane sealer it (which they would supply), and they then gave me a fresh gallon of paint and the right reducers and hardeners to do the job. I have my uncle helping me do the job and told them to double the supplies since he comes in the paint booth with me to help out. So all in all I walked out with the right products to do the job, the materials to get it prepped and safety materials and a gift card. If I ever paint another car, I wouldn't hesitate to go back to this napa, I would just stay away from the one bad guy. All in all Im Happy, I'm 21 and wasn't about to let anyone walk over me.

[ntx_gearhead]

Originally Posted by MDVette313

Update, Went to the Napa store to speak with the head manager. Didn't give me the time of day, said he knew nothing about paint and that I would have to wait until monday for the paint manager to get back from vacation. (the paint manager is the one who messed the job up to begin with). I had done my research in advanced and had other names and numbers ready to go, so when the main manager didn't give me the time of day, I told him I hope you don't mind me calling the district manager... and so I went to my car and made the call, since this store happened to be the main distribution center the district managers office was right on the other side of the building, he said go back into the store and I'll meet you there. He didn't like the issue, once he (the district manager) proved to himself they sold me the wrong product, he offered the right products free of charge to complete the job. I said what about everything else that goes into redoing this job like respirator and coveralls and sandpaper etc. I told him I wouldn't have had to buy these things again if your employee didn't mess up my first spray. So he agreed to give me those items. Then it was time for my labor, he said he couldn't do anything about that, so I mentioned how his employee made an express warranty with me and I had the right to sue for damages, and court would be an easy route. So he immediately asked what I thought I deserved, I said lets start with refunding my visa for the price of the original paint, he said we can't do anything cash but he could give me a store credit/giftcard for the amount. (I never settled at this point) So about the issue if the whole car needed to be stripped or just sanded, they wanted the napa paint rep to come out to my house to check out the job which was 20 mins away, so I told them i'll just bring a fender in, in an hour. Went home and grabbed a fender and brought it in.... when I got back they had a box of all the stuff to do prep and coveralls, respirator, along with the napa paint rep. and the martin senour paint rep waiting to see this fender. They knew it was a mess, we sanded it there and it dusted fine, the extra day of drying eliminated the gumming. We decided that I would 600 the whole car, 2k urethane sealer it (which they would supply), and they then gave me a fresh gallon of paint and the right reducers and hardeners to do the job. I have my uncle helping me do the job and told them to double the supplies since he comes in the paint booth with me to help out. So all in all I walked out with the right products to do the job, the materials to get it prepped and safety materials and a gift card. If I ever paint another car, I wouldn't hesitate to go back to this napa, I would just stay away from the one bad guy. All in all Im Happy, I'm 21 and wasn't about to let anyone walk over me.

If it makes you feel any better you completely scammed that store... I work for NAPA myself and like milo eluded to.... the cans say and I quote "IMPORTANT. FORMULATED FOR APPLICATION BY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS USING PROPER EQUIPMENT UNDER CONTROLLED USE CONDITIONS. NOT INTENDED FOR THE RETAIL TRADE. Before using carefully read CAUTIONS elsewhere on label." The manager wasn't obligated to do anything except tell you that he or she was sorry. Consider yourself lucky you were at the DC and not a regular store. Next time for your sake as well as the sake of the poor S.O.B behind the counter.... ask for a PDS "product description sheet". It lists the acceptable reducers, hardeners (where applicable) as well as a fairly detailed description of how the product should be applied" Good luck on the paint job, I hope it turns out well.

-Josh
"Drive It Like Ya Stole It"

[MDVette313]

Originally Posted by ntx_gearhead

If it makes you feel any better you completely scammed that store... I work for NAPA myself and like milo eluded to.... the cans say and I quote "IMPORTANT. FORMULATED FOR APPLICATION BY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS USING PROPER EQUIPMENT UNDER CONTROLLED USE CONDITIONS. NOT INTENDED FOR THE RETAIL TRADE. Before using carefully read CAUTIONS elsewhere on label." The manager wasn't obligated to do anything except tell you that he or she was sorry. Consider yourself lucky you were at the DC and not a regular store. Next time for your sake as well as the sake of the poor S.O.B behind the counter.... ask for a PDS "product description sheet". It lists the acceptable reducers, hardeners (where applicable) as well as a fairly detailed description of how the product should be applied" Good luck on the paint job, I hope it turns out well.

-Josh
"Drive It Like Ya Stole It"

The Paint manager helping me pick out the product, printed the tech sheet, crossed out the correct reducer and wrote in trs4 and said this is what we are using now in place of it. Which happened to be a stabilizer form a different paint line, if I was more knowledgeable of paint I would have picked out the stabilizer part and asked twice, but I'm new to this so I didn't.... Because he did that and said those words, he as an employee of Napa made an express warranty/contract for them and I could get damages. Now if I had picked that product off the shelf my self or used the right product and mixed wrong and messed up the paint job myself, yes in that case they could say sorry cya later. At least this is what I believe, from what I had learned in my law class last semester, so I may still be wrong.

[MDVette313]

Need an opinion, after I finish sanding this orange peel, (I have the whole garage wrapped in plastic sheets to keep heat and overspray contained. I noticed there is some overspray and dust on these sheets that make my booth.... once I'm finished sanding, do you guys think I should rip this down and put up new plastic do to the fact that dust might blow when I go to shoot paint? first time took roughly 4 hours and 2 people

[Underground]

you might try washing it down first to see if it comes off. And no you could NOT get damages. The ONLY thing you could have gotten is material replacement and your lucky at that. You ARE NOT a trained professional ,which ALL paint specifically states on the can, so you would have lost. It is still real hard for me to believe that they gave you a new respirator, paint suit and sand paper PLUS gave you a store credit for what you bought before. It is YOUR responsibility to make sure you have the right products before you spray.

[MDVette313]

yea good idea on washing, ill give it a try, would save a lot of time. Well, fortunately for me it looks like I made out, but I still had to go through a lot of *******, and wish it hadn't happened. Thanks for the help-