[ChevelleSS_LS6]

Here we go,
I'm sure some of you are familiar with the debates my old man and I have, and today (just a few minutes ago) got into yet another.

He says they [race teams] might be able to make some body modifications to the nose of the car but otherwise must fit an exact factory body template. They may be lowered, and the roofs may be lowered a bit also. I disagree since the new Chargers (nascar version) have the grille lowered, and the "headlights" (stickers really) are leaned back. Viewing the hood from the side it is rather steep, resembling a modified class dirt track car. I agree with him on the lowering of the body/limited choptop treatment.

The production chargers have the grille level with the functional headlights, and from the side profile the hood line is relatively horizontal.

Then he suggests maybe they're using older bodies or the charger in my motor trend (production model was what I showed the guy, not a prototype pic) is of a different year. 2005 is the first year of the 4door charger.

................

And from a few weeks ago, we got into an argument over the engines and stuff. He says the companies must make so many cars with the same basic engine (read: block) as used in NASCAR. This means there would be v8 Montes, Grand Prixs, and Tauruses, and those v8s would be 358c.i.

................

I believe my dad was right- back in the 80s or earlier when NASCAR was based on factory cars, but the cars they race now are essentially tube frame race cars with sheetmetal that "resembles" the factory stuff. To my knowledge, there is NOT a Dodge Charger that looks like a modified class dirt track racer, and I have yet to see a v8 in a late model GP, MC, etc.
-matt

[schnitz]

We are dealing with NASCAR here.... They change the rules mid-race and it's commonplace and acceptable for them to do apparently.

In a while, Chet.

[BarryK]

There is a template and the car better be hitting in all areas so it don't matter if you run a pinto or a town car, it must fit the template.

The engine statement was true in the 60's, not sure when stopped but not true today.

It was a great day today 24 won and 48 was not far behind!
The 97 car needs to learn how to drive, getting in Gordons way like he did!

[NAIRB]

Personally, what I'm seeing now with Nascar is a major turn off to me.

Prima-Donna drivers that are nothing more than corporate models to pitch their crap.

Million dollar cars that all look the same.

Bobby Isaacs would bust Bill France right in his nose, light up a cig and walk off the track!

The sport has been ruined by big money.

[helrazr3]

the templates nascar uses (and there are many) are for the most part not derived from the stock production car i believe that the center hood and roof line that runs up the car are from the factory car but all the nose templates are nascar designed and do not conform to the factory car. the motors don't have to be found in a factory car either although at one time they did.



(this is not your fathers nascar anymore).

[coldknock]

Good things about NASCRAP.

I can count on being able to grocery chopping on race day without having to elbow anybody out of my way.

I can use the Wal-Mart parking lot to play with my RC cars, because it's empty for about three hours on race day.

All the stickered up, crusty-arsed trucks are parked at home, out of my way.

The chances of me having to endure a conversation (like the one below) about NASCRAP drop to nothing for about three hours.

Rednek "Yew see at t'ere race tuhday?"
Me "Bits and pieces"
Rednek "Jimmuh Spenster called at'ere yungun, shewt.....uuuuhhhh whuts 'is name, a punk fer runnin' intuh one er two th'untherns on the track."
Me "Mmm hmm"
Rednek "I thawt they's gonna fight t'ere fer a minute er two."
Me "Really?"
Redneck "Yep, Them yunguns got to lern some r'spect fer the other'ns."
Me "I guess so"
Redneck "Won't nun of 'em ever be good as Dale."
Me "Who?"
Redneck "DALE EARNHART, at's who!"
Me "Later dude."
Redneck "Aight 'en."

Bad things about NASCRAP.

Hooters is packed with obnoxious redneks watching NASCRAP.

Every other decent sports bar is packed with obnoxious redneks watching NASCRAP.

Everything on the stinking television, radio and in the printed press has NASCRAP all over, in and on it.

Everyone asks me if I saw the race. (See the above conversation)

Everyone gets mad when I tell them I have more fun watching the grass grow.

Larry

[BarryK]

Originally Posted by NAIRB

Personally, what I'm seeing now with Nascar is a major turn off to me.
The sport has been ruined by big money.

************************************************** *
Is that not sad!
I have been a sports nut all my life, I lived to play football, baseball and box from the time I was 7 or 8.
But in last ten years I have stopped watching any sports and no longer follow them, I don't want to listen to some tattooed hair braided idiot that talks like he still has a jar of baby food in his mouth.

Nascar and drag racing are the only classy and clean for family viewing sports left.

I agree to a point with you but hope nascar does not go down hill to fast as its all I got left!

[ChevyCan]

Let's see here...you take 43 cars with 700HP small-blocks and you stick 'em on a track where they all drive upwards to 200 mph within inches of each other for nearly 4 hours, even bumping into and sideswiping their competitors while maintaining control of the vehicle. Add to that how many of the race finishes come down to two cars neck-in-neck drag racing for the finish line, seperated by inches when they cross, with a hundred thousand screaming fans in the stands.

Sounds like fun to me. I love going to the Friday night dirt-track races, too. It's one thing to see cars flying through the air upside-down on TV, another thing to see it in person, especially when the driver can get out, dust himself off, wave to the fans he's okay, and walk away from it.

My only regret is that the 'stock' has been taken out of 'stock car racing'. But the reality is, if Chevy and Ford had to build rear-wheel drive V-8 versions of the Monte Carlo and Taurus to compete, they just wouldn't compete. Ditto for building 2-door Taurus and Chargers instead of 4-doors. In the old days they built cars like The Superbird and the Talledega (not to mention the 426 Hemi) just for the purpose of NASCAR competition. Today you'd never convince the big-3 stockholders it was worth the investment. So the rules have changed to keep the cars fast and competitive, and the racing dream possible. I'm just glad we still have NASCAR in an age when insurance companies and personal injury lawyers seem to rule the world of recreation.

[johnsongrass1]

Let's see here...you take 43 cars with 700HP small-blocks and you stick 'em on a track where they all drive upwards to 200 mph within inches of each other for nearly 4 hours, even bumping into and sideswiping their competitors while maintaining control of the vehicle. Add to that how many of the race finishes come down to two cars neck-in-neck drag racing for the finish line, seperated by inches when they cross, with a hundred thousand screaming fans in the stands.

Cars weigh 3400 pounds, 16" wide tires, 118 wheel base, 1500 pounds of down force, $1800 set of specifically developed tires for the track and it's current surface. Not to mention the technology and part's bred specific for there intended function. Add these up and the cars aren't very hard to drive. Even the sensation of speed goes away after a few minutes.

Hard to drive?

Not much different than 70 MPH down the interstate. A little more noise though. And an increase in g forces. But again the seat's design will take a lot of that out.

[ChevelleSS_LS6]

Originally Posted by NAIRB

Personally, what I'm seeing now with Nascar is a major turn off to me.

Prima-Donna drivers that are nothing more than corporate models to pitch their crap.

Million dollar cars that all look the same.

Bobby Isaacs would bust Bill France right in his nose, light up a cig and walk off the track!

The sport has been ruined by big money.

I understand what ya mean, it's getting too politically correct (next they'll be shaking hands and drinking tea ). Worse, on TV they have all of these stupid annoying animations (some with sound, sounds like a video game), and I believe they did the jap-cartoon treatment to some drivers... and they have little alarms that go off and say "RACE TIME" and so they get to the racetrack superfast and somehow change into their race suit and fireproof undies before they get to the race.

Budget racing, or stock-based (fwd v6) nascar, now that would be interesting.

[johnsongrass1]

Budget racing?

What's that? Is it new?

[coldknock]

Johnsongrass, Do you think it would astonish the masses to know that the open wheel modifieds run quicker lap times on the short tracks than the big bad "Cup Cars"?

Larry

[johnsongrass1]

Super Late making 875hp and 750 torque weighing 2200 vs Cup car weighing 3400 and making 750 and 500 torque.

Super Lates are capable of more traction or grip on dirt with a 4 link than a cup car with truck arm.

Even the Mods are reaching 675 with 2400-2600 pound rules.

[37year old kid]

Originally Posted by johnsongrass1

Super Late making 875hp and 750 torque weighing 2200 vs Cup car weighing 3400 and making 750 and 500 torque.

Super Lates are capable of more traction or grip on dirt with a 4 link than a cup car with truck arm.

Even the Mods are reaching 675 with 2400-2600 pound rules.

Our Super Stock is alegedly "Entry Level". 10K a year in entry fees, tires, Fuel and any broken parts. 350 RWHP, 3300 lbs min w/driver, 358c.i. max and the most fun a person could have. But budget racing? Never heard of it. Is it like when you and your buddies rent cars from "Budget" rent a car and race around the city??

[pasadenahotrod]

I was under the impression that the NASCAR race cars are all the same dimensions in every way. The only difference is drivetrain and suspension. The templates are for a non-specific generic vehicle and only the painted details make any sign of make-specific vehicles.
I am not amused.

I do wonder if real stock cars could be made to race and put on a show, front drive V-techs, Z-techs or whatever and all.